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Cry Me A (Meuse)River

Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 11:43 pm
by gregorit
Very awesome game but I'm hoping to play some serious players - any takers? \

The AI is no longer viable as an opponent and my last 20 Gamecenter matches have me at 15-5 and I suspect it's even better than that since some of the matches have not been recorded. I'm tired of squids who get a day or two in and then *just don't play*, at least resign so I don't have to look at your ugly ID in my ongoing games list! RJ and Clifton taught me a few things but I've built on those lessons: I'm going for 20-0 after which I'm retiring from this game.

Gamecenter ID is gregorit, bring it. I generally have 11-12 games going and have a few open slots right now.

Re: Cry Me A (Meuse)River

Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 3:27 pm
by s_nkarp
hmm, I'll take that challenge - away from reliable internet until wednesday, but can flip a couple times a day at least!

Re: Cry Me A (Meuse)River

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 4:18 am
by s_Uberskooper
I played you through a random Game Center match. I think our game froze during your turn. It did that that thing were the game told me it was my turn, but I had just moved.

Re: Cry Me A (Meuse)River

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 5:10 pm
by gregorit
Nice set of games, Mr. Karp, 1-1. My first loss in a few days, good job! A formidable opponent, indeed.

Uberskooper: I do remember matching against you but I'm not familiar with the bug you described. How does that happen?

Miscellaneous: Is there a way of seeing all the matches w/outcomes & opponents in GameCenter? I'm still very new to this Apple tool...

Re: Cry Me A (Meuse)River

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 7:10 pm
by daviddunham
From the “Choose” button you have a “Game Over” section which would let you review completed games. You are probably hoping for something more like statistics, which Game Center doesn’t provide.

Re: Cry Me A (Meuse)River

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 7:42 pm
by Ekrommen
Hi! I'd like in on this, I'll try to figure out how to challenge. My Game Center ID is Pizza Pirate.

Re: Cry Me A (Meuse)River

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 7:55 pm
by gregorit
I do see the "Game Over" section, but I have no clue as to "which" games it wants to report on. Right now it shows 16 games (12-4) but I've seen it go as high as reporting 21 outcomes. Some of my matches show up, some don't, and they go as far back as 12/16/2012. Complete statistics would be nice...

Pizza Pirate: Saw your Game Center challenge, let's go play in the Ardennes snow...

Re: Cry Me A (Meuse)River

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:05 pm
by daviddunham
Ones that are over. By Game Center’s definition. I think both sides need to have been informed of a game’s ending, for example.

We had some grandiose plans for tracking all sorts of stuff. We also had an even more grandiose plan: ship a game…

Re: Cry Me A (Meuse)River

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:36 pm
by gregorit
Thanks, David. I'm pretty impressed by this game - you shipped a good product. And that's coming from a hardcore Philly wargamer.

Re: Cry Me A (Meuse)River

Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 8:00 am
by s_nkarp
Hi Gregorit, good games indeed! The latest pair is getting off to a fun start as well, but Im embarassed to say a bug will prevent completing one of our two (where you are Axis). Game Center is out of sync, showing it as my move, but waiting. Im surprised - this was an ongoing intermittent problem that I thought was licked - first time Ive seen it in the release version. Anyway, we will play more!

Re: Cry Me A (Meuse)River

Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 8:32 pm
by gregorit
Gregorit BoB Tip #1: Time Passages

One thing I've noticed is people not paying attention to their end-of-day activation timing. What does that mean? Simply, if you're not paying attention, your opponent could get a 'double impulse' which could be quite problematic.

From 12/16 to 12/22 the Germans go first at the start of each day. Assuming that the game ends on their move half the time between 12/16 and 12/21, the Germans will get to go TWICE in a row. This is particularly devastating when the Allies have no northern shoulder reinforcements, i.e., 12/19 and 12/21. If a hole gets blown in the Allied line at the end of 12/18 and 12/20, a shrewd Nazi will be pouring through when dawn breaks the next day! Setting up for this move is important, of course, and even preparation doesn't guarantee the Germans will get the last move. Here is where study of the "Time Passages" table comes in handy; my own rule of thumb is to plan for the double impulse when you have an hour or less in the day. (Your German clock says 1700 hours, for those of you insistent on staying on military time.)

From the other side of the table, the Allies should be well aware that the initiative shifts on 12/23 so the end of 12/22 is the PERFECT time to try to breach a river line. Last activation of 12/22, cross the river. If given the choice, go into the roughest terrain possible with an elite infantry because you will need to DEFEND that bridgehead! At the start of the next day, your battered river-crossers will take replacements and you should send in another elite unit so that you can hold the breach with two defenders.

I've provided examples of both sides being able to take advantage of the end-of-day situation - your mission is to know leverage this knowledge and find some new tactics that can swing the battle. Good hunting!

Re: Cry Me A (Meuse)River

Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:47 pm
by Yojimbo252
Nice strategy tip.

Cry Me A (Meuse)River

Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:38 pm
by gregorit
Gregorit BoB Tip #2: Stopping the Unsupplied Meuse Win

It has come to my attention that some view it as unethical to win in this game by controlling a space west of the Meuse without having a line of supply. To that I say "Tough Luck". It may be fixed in the next update, it may not be, but either way, if you want to win NOW you need to be able to defend against it. I personally like the gambit as it allows the Germans to go all-out for an early win which seems more in tune with OKW's original intentions. (Grinding out a long game win by picking off stray Allied units with mega-tank stacks is the real crime but that's a tale best left for another day.)

Here are my thoughts on stopping the 12/19 "Unsupplied German across the Meuse Win", there are some ways that Allied crybabies can hold back the Nazis from this most "despicable" of wins:

1) Make sure that the Germans can't get a unit across the Meuse on 12/19. That means on 12/17, you need only ensure that the Germans don't get a two-space move (or combat breakthrough). To even threaten to win, they need to reach the Meuse on 12/18, their usual target is Huy. Defending with 2 or 3 steps in Tros Pont on 12/17 is often sufficient against even the craftiest of Krauts. Just be careful not to defend in Werbomont on 12/17 as an easy breakthrough will put German panzers in Huy or Oufeet.

2) Make sure you have defenders behind the Meuse in place at the end of 12/18. Three steps minimum, please. There's still a good chance the river-assaulting tanks will wrest control of Hingeon or Wanzon so have your reserves ready. A useful gimmick I've seen is for the Allies to defend Verviers with THREE units on 12/17, this 'pushes' the 12/18 reinforcement to Liege where it is better situated to defend or counterattack along the Meuse.

3) Finally, if you can't prevent the initial moves or follow-up attacks, don't even try to defend with a two step unit in the open/rough; you should instead have a counterattcking force in place. It needs to be able to reach both Hingeon and Wanze which generally means stationing a mixed armor/infantry force in Wanze. More armor is better, of course. The Allies don't get any reinforcements in Liege or Verviers on 12/19 so don't count on help coming in from Eisenhower.

You've been warned, I will breach the Meuse and take the win if you choose to pretend it can't happen.

Cry Me A (Meuse)River

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 1:33 am
by gregorit
Here's a bonus for you math hounds: Applying the binomial distribution to the combat rules, here's a snapshot of the likelihood of unit with a "To Hit" value of 5, like an elite German armor, inflicting a specific number of hits. For example, a full strength 1st SS (seven strength), is likely to inflict more than four or more hits a surprising 49% of the time. (That's the result of adding the chances of hitting four, five, six, and seven times.)

Re: Cry Me A (Meuse)River

Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 3:39 pm
by emos
Great strategy write ups Gregorit!
I took the initiative of sharing this information over in the thread at the Touch Arcade site, hope you don't mind (I gave you the proper credit you deserve).

Re: Cry Me A (Meuse)River

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:43 pm
by gregorit
You're quite welcome, Emos. I'm basically trying to document my thoughts on the game and dissuade people from the opinion that this is a 'light' little game. =)

gregorit tip #3: The Countdown Clock

In the 1965 movie there's a opening scene where a German commander is being 'onboarded' to the Wacht am Rhein offensive and he is shown a big clock that indicates that he has 50 hours to achieve his objectives after which point the offensive's chance of victory declines significantly. Well, in this game, the strategic player is also 'under the clock': He must carefully watch the VP "clock" as that tells him whether he is winning or losing. The accumulated VPs might be sufficient for a win on one day but not the next so the players have to ALWAYS pay attention to the VPs. Some key things to think about:

* Know your VP cities and how much they are worth. Add those under Nazi control them to the German score to get a feel for where the turn will end.
* Units can be worth 2-7 VP - attack or protect them accordingly!
* Make your tactical decisions for the turn based on the situation: If the Germans have reached the VP threshold, the Allies need to capture cities/towns back or kill German units of sufficient strength. (VP = strength points originally had). If the Germans are close, make sure you don't let them kill Allied units! Once you know you can survive the turn, start thinking about what you need next turn and the associated VP thresholds.
* The VP clock constantly ticks but, unlike the one in the movie, it can go backwards with the elimination of German units. But the wise Allied player will not kill Germans worth 5 VP if the result is losing Allied units worth 7VP the same turn and the loss of a town like Bastogne which yields 2 VP per turn.
* Both players need to protect their weakened divisions, do not leave them in a position where they can be eliminated with average luck.

Taking it to the next level requires a constant eye on the VP clock - once the players pass the point where the Germans can score an early victory, December 19th, it is critical that EVERY move you make is aligned with the cadence set by the iPad Bulge clock.

Re: Cry Me A (Meuse)River

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 2:12 pm
by rbeyma
La Roche Corridor

After 20-30 games under my belt I think I've noticed a pattern that will help fledgling Field Marshals. Too often I see panzer stacks bash into Bastogne or up to the Meuse in the North and are easily contained afterwards by the Allies. The Germans need to use their panzers to threaten multiple things at once, and force the Allies to spread out early in the game.

Turns 17-20 are critical for this, and one avenue of advance that I utilize to success as the Germans but never seem to have to defend is the La Roche corridor. As long as you are careful to keep a chain together so that you aren't put out of supply, this opens up so much opportunity to attain VPs. Dinant, Marche, and Givet are all open for the taking, and more importantly, exiting the map to the West is poosible here as well. Whenever an Allied player stacks his defense high around Liege and Verviers I go this route. As a side benefit, it becomes easier to envelop Bastogne if you have some infantry penetration to the south. Once you get a stack of panzers in La Roche, suddenly the Allies have a hard time defending this area of the board.

Re: Cry Me A (Meuse)River

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:27 pm
by blahblah3502
gregorit ( thanks for the amazing strategy tips!) wrote above:
A useful gimmick I've seen is for the Allies to defend Verviers with THREE units on 12/17, this 'pushes' the 12/18 reinforcement to Liege where it is better situated to defend or counterattack along the Meuse.
Maybe players should just be given a choice of which entry road on the appropriate screen side that their reinforcements show up on (assuming no enemy blockade) even if their historical hex entry point isn't "full"?

Re: Cry Me A (Meuse)River

Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:08 am
by gregorit
You're welcome, blahblah3502. I personally think it's ok if delayed units get to choose but not the ones that have a scheduled arrival time. Example: 10 Arm comes from the south, it makes no sense that it could have arrived at the same time if it had 50 miles more to go, arriving at the Western edge.

Re: Cry Me A (Meuse)River

Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:49 am
by gregorit
Here's a list of the Top 10 things I'd like to see in the next BoB update, I'll update this post as the mood strikes me or if convinced otherwise.

1. Fix the unsupplied early victory. Or adjust the rules to match the current situation.
2. In GameCenter play, list your opponent on the game screen.
3. Show the victory thresholds in the VP bar. (I recommend replacing the German Cross/Allied Star symbols.)
4. Soup up the game center integration including achievements, leaderboards, etc.
5. Create a one-line chat interface. I'd like to at least tell folks "Good game!" at the end.
6. Allow replays of complete games, even if it requires saving a game file to be replayed.
7. Add some combat probability tables to the help file.
8. To delay incoming reinforcements, the entry hex has to be garrisoned, not just controlled. If not occupied, new arrivals arrive spent. I think the "Race to Sedan" to be a bit silly and ahistorical.
9. If you don't make a move in a week in a GameCenter match, you should lose.
10. One should be able to see the 'day' history, i.e., tapping the "Time" indicator shows the current time as well as the progress meter for the entire day. I like to know how many moves the Germans get in on the first few days. (My record low is FOUR. A medal should be awarded for wins made in in extreme situations like that!)

There's also some UI clumsiness when I have to drop to the main menu to get to another ongoing match - more to follow once I have a specific recommendation.