Slitherine

hey guys as i mentioned in my tyranids graphics thread, i will take care of all the graphics and sound stuff, which leaves stats as the last thing we need to do before we can complete the tyranids full faction addon project.

the stats is actually not a small task, when the graphics are done, there will be roughly 35 ish unique tyranids units, that means that the final army list will have around 50+ units because some units will have different weapon loadouts. thats a lot of stats crunching. therefore i think it's a good idea to start early with this thread devoted for stats as well as some ideas about how to implement some of the game mechanics unique to the tyranid race. ( see post 2 about some of ideas to mod the nids mechanics into this game as examples ). it's a community project, i hope lots of people will participate.

it's just the pure stats, you don't have to worry about modifying all the .whdat files and putting everything together. when sound files and graphics are done, and with the stats work done in this thread, i will put everything together and can quickly release completely finished units in batches of 10 units or so very quickly. or you guys can do them yourselves if you prefer. either way, the point is once stats are done, the project can be completed very quickly.

when you post stats of units or weapons, make sure you post ALL stats of a single unit or weapon. not just the armor or accuracy, etc. we need ALL OF THE STATS.

here is the complete list of stats in game for units and weapons:

units

## requisition cost , ## unit strength, ## hit points, ## defense ( armor ), ## initiate, ## unit type ( infantry, tank, artillery etc ) ,
## movement type, ## movement range, ## spot range, ## melee accuracy, ## ranged accuracy, ## traits, ## what weapons they use

weapons

##range, ## strength, ## armor penetration, ## number of shots, ## base accuracy, ## accuracy penalty per hex, ## traits

you don't have to post stats here if you don't want to, if you prefer to work on your own and store all your stats on your computer and send them later, that's fine too.

a note about converting stats from table top codex to the stats we use in this game. we all know it's not exactly a 1 to 1 conversion. so a little "tweaking" is needed, which is why this task is no simple task. and sometimes we need to change the stats a bit for the balance of this game.

the other day i was fooling around putting together the fully functional termagaunt unit with all the stats and sound and everything. the stats that i use for fleshborer is a little different from the codex. in the tyranids codex, the fleshborer's range is 12 inch. that translates to 1 hex in our game. but that doesn't work well in our game because, one hex is melee range. we want termagaunts to provide some sort of range fire support for the melee units IN FRONT OF IT. with 1 hex of range, no melee units can be positioned in front of it. so i changed the range of fleshborer to 2 hexes, but to balance that out, i set the accuracy penalty per hex to -30% instead of the usual -10%. the result is that termagaunts can still have the option to shoot when positioned behind melee units, but they are just not very accurate. it works pretty well in testing. keep stuff like this in mind when you convert stats from codex to the our armageddon game.

i hope lots of people on this forum here will contribute. if each person do stats for 1 or 2 units or weapons, then we will have the entire stats done very quickly. it will still be a few more weeks before i can finish all the graphics and sound, so hopefully by then we will have stats for a bunch of units. also feel free to post ideas about modding tyranids unique mechanics into this game.

btw does anyone here have the 7th edition tyranids codex? i only have 6th edition. are there lots of changes in terms of stats from 6th to 7th ed?

cheers.

here are some ideas about nids mechanics.

synapse coverage:

the easiest solution is simply give synapse creatures the leadership or heroic trait. it basically works as moral. i'm thinking heroic trait which sets the moral back to 100 in the beginning of each turn. i don't think it's overpowered, because first, according to lore, under synapse coverage, nids creatures are pretty single minded. they won't break. if we use only leadership trait instead of heroic, it only restore a portion of moral, not all moral. secondly, even with this trait, the nids units moral can still drop under fire in the middle of the turn. thirdly, in our game, a synapse creature can only boost morals of 6 surrounding units, as opposed to a bunch of units in a large area in table top game. and it's not always easy to put a synapse creature in the middle of a pack of 6 units, due to terrain restriction in our game.

tervigon spawning of termagaunts:

this mechanic along with a bunch of other mechanics, will require some sort of "house rule" enforced by players. ( no cheating !! ) in order to make this mechanic work, we need to enforce the rule of " absolutely no replenishing of unit strength on the battlefield for any units but termagaunts". you can still rest and refit, but no replenishing. only termagaunts can replenish unit strength in the middle of the battle, and it can only do so by standing beside a tervigon. tervigon will be given heroic trait, so that when next turn starts, the badly mauled termagaunt unit will be restored to full moral to simulate being a newly birthed squad. this rule actually make battles more interesting, as i have never been a fan of replenishing combat units in the middle of battle for no reason. now you have to march your reinforcements from the deployment zone in the back all the way to the front. ( except termagaunts of course ) .

tyrannocyte ( nids droppod and close air support unit) deep strike rule:

another house rule, basically we make 2 kinds of tyrannocytes units, one uses the landed tyrannocyte graphics and has a req cost, and attached to the infantry like transport. the other is the airborne version but has no cost. we give the landed tyrannocyte unit massive number of range. so that it can deliver the infantry anywhere you can see on the map provided there are no some sort of choke points of enemies between your deployment zone and your destination. after it landed, it can take fire and return fire as usual for that turn, it has 5 venom cannons i believe. but the next turn, you have to disembark your infantry, and your infantry unit can NOT use your tyrannocyte as transport again after that. instead to simulate the landed tyrannocyte flying into the air to become a close air support unit, we deploy another airborne tyrannocyte unit with 0 cost ( not sure if you can do that, if not put the cost to 1 ) to the same location, then you use this airborne tyrannocyte as an air support unit as if it was the same unit that just delivered the infantry troops.

these are some examples of the rules we can self enforce into the game for now, feel free to post your ideas about all other mechanics.

Stats are quickly set and easily revised. So I dunno if it is too productive to brainstorm actuall numbers. Especially as we (or at least I) are waiting for new modding possibilities...
But what I would love to talk about is the purpose of each unit in lore and tabletop and how we can translate them into the game.

So I just kick it off.

Standard troops:

Termagaunt
The perfect mass unit. They're dirt cheap, but can't do anything well in their basic form. But they're great to be thrown at the opponent to keep him occupied. The Standard Termagant is equipped with a fleshborer. Keep the fleshborer at range 1 - the basic termagant isn't really something you hide behind the frontline, they are THE frontline. Also the fleshborer has a stronger punch than the laser rifle (which has range of 2 in game), so it's quite a good trade off.
Now Termagaunts can exchange their fleshborer for Spinefists (doesn't make sense for Termagants to use them, so no need to have this variant) or Spike Rifle (basically a Lasgun, with 18" range - but i think you can translate into range 2, thats fine)
As a variant i would also add termagant with devourers (18" range). Now those guys are for mass shooting. They chuck out sickening amount of shots but the weapon doubles the price of the Termagant. They're quite deadly, if they're not destroyed before they can get their shots off.

Hormagaunt
Still cheap, basically come for the price of an imperial guard. Have less equip options than Termagaunts. They are fast and competent in melee. Perfect assault troops against standard infantry.

Ripper Swarm
Ripper Swarms are really only used for their deepstrike abilities and usage of the spinefists (4 attacks per swarm, not bad.) They can surprise and tie up units but are VERY vulnerable to blast weapons. Unfortunately we don't have traits ingame that model deepstrike or blast weapons well, so at the moment I don't see much room to really make rippers distinctive to Hormagaunts and Termagaunts.

Genestealer
Quite a price jump compared to Hormagaunts and Termagaunts but so deadly. If they can get into close combat range they will really hurt. But thats the big if, they're not much tougher than the gaunt broods but 3 times as expensive. Still awesome close up troops. We really need a variant with a brood lord. Although we currently don't have traits for "officierweapons" at the moment - we still could implement it as Genestealer with a bit higher combat potential and the fear trait

As a side-note: we really need genestealer hybrids of all the major races - that would be cool and open up implementation of genestealer cults =), as mentioned in the other thread.

Tyranid Warriors
Double the price of a Genestealer and you get Tyranid Warriors. Really tough unit, equipped with Devourers for nice shooting and competent at melee. They cost more than 6x that of termagaunts and 3x of termagaunts equipped with Devourers, so they should not match Termagaunts range damage potential but have better armor and should get the assault trait with good close combat abilities.
On top of the standard tyranid warriors i would like to see at least two more specialized variants of tyranid warriors, as they have quite a few weapon options. One variant would be melee oriented tyranid warriors with Bonesword and Lash whip (instead of its talons), which boosts the warrior close combat deadliness by a lot, but also its price almost doubles.
The other variant more oriented to range combat. All would be equipped with Deathspitters, stat wise relative similar to devourers just with higher attack strength and actual amour penetration. If we get the "officer weapon"trait or "squad weapon trait" we could model the option to equip one warrior per unit with either a Barbed Strangler (weapon with large blast, pinning and range 36" - quite good against mass infantry with low armor save) or a Venom Cannon (also range 36" and a blast weapon, but the blast radius is smaller. Hits harder and has better armor penetration than the Barbed Strangler).


Just my first thoughts on the standard troops, later i will add my thoughts of the other types as well.

pizzagrenadier wrote:here are some ideas about nids mechanics.

synapse coverage:

the easiest solution is simply give synapse creatures the leadership or heroic trait. it basically works as moral. i'm thinking heroic trait which sets the moral back to 100 in the beginning of each turn. i don't think it's overpowered, because first, according to lore, under synapse coverage, nids creatures are pretty single minded. they won't break. if we use only leadership trait instead of heroic, it only restore a portion of moral, not all moral. secondly, even with this trait, the nids units moral can still drop under fire in the middle of the turn. thirdly, in our game, a synapse creature can only boost morals of 6 surrounding units, as opposed to a bunch of units in a large area in table top game. and it's not always easy to put a synapse creature in the middle of a pack of 6 units, due to terrain restriction in our game.

I would also suggest giving units with instinctive behavior a sight rating of either 1 or 0. That would make them pretty useless on their own and make them much more dependent on synapse creature that should get a pretty good sight range.


About unit spawning units:
just try to add their damage potential of spawning units in their weapon profiles. On average one Tervigon will spawn about 10 Termagants per turn so you could add Fleshborers with 10 shots to the tervigon profile. Not ideal but better than clumsy "house ruling" that is not reflected in the game behavior.

thanks xadie! really appreciate all your suggestions and unit stats conversion guidelines.

keep them coming!

I've taken a high HP, low defense approach so far. On table top most tyranid creatures aren't that hard to hurt, but take a lot of punishment. I've also neglected to provide stats, primarily because last time I knew GW did not like that and dedicated warhammer forums try to discourage it (GW are very sensitive about their intellectual property). I'll update with more stuff from IA 2 vol4 and the norm nid dex, but I want feedback on what I've written so far and see if others think its reasonable.

Hierophant Bio-titan;

Biggest nasty that the game has rules for, weaker than the Reaver but much stronger than the Warhound. Starts with 2 Biocannons (high strength, poor ap, lot of shots) and has one of 3 optional weapons; Spine cloud spray (great AA), Bio-plamsa Torrent (uber bio flamer, great for killing meqs), and the Spore Mine Swarm Spitter (anti-infantry barrage weapon).
Req: 1750 Unit Strength 1 HP 20 Defense 110 Type:Titan Move Type: Walker Heavy Move 3 Spot 2/3 Melee: 70-80 Range:60 Trait: Assault

Weapons
2 Bio-cannons STR 90 AP 30% Shots 6 Accuracy 70% -10%/hex Range 4
Spine-cloud Spray STR 50 AP 20% Shots 3 Accuracy 80 -10%/hex Range 3 AA
Bio-plasma torrent STR 40 AP 20% Shots 6 Accuracy 100% -10%/hex Range 2 Siege
Spore Mine Swarm Spitter STR 30 AP 10% Shots 8+ Accuracy 70% -0%/hex Range 6
Bio-titan Scything Talons STR 100 AP 40% Shots 7 Accuracy 90% -0%/hex Range 0

Scythed/Barbed Hierodule;

Another big nasty creature, its weaker than the Warhound but very fast.

Req 1350 Unit Strength 1 HP 16 Defense 95 Type:Titan Move Type: Walker Heavy Move: 5 Spot: 2/3 Melee: 70-80 Range:60 Trait: Assault

Weapons
Scythed-
Bio-titan Scything Talons STR 100 AP 40% Shots 7 Accuracy 90% -0%/hex Range 0
Bio-acid spray STR 50 AP 20% Shots 6 Accuracy 100% -10%/hex Range 2 Siege
Barbed-
2 Bio-cannons STR 90 AP 30% Shots 6 Accuracy 70% -10%/hex Range 4
Titan Scything Talons STR 90 AP 35% Shots 5 Accuracy 90% -0%/hex Range 0

Dimachaeron-
Assassinator via force, this guy is next biggest thing compared to the titans.That said, he has a common statline for most of the monsterous creature Tyrans have, so hopefully he'll be the basis for those.

Req 1000 Unit Strength 4 HP:6 Defense 55 Type: Walker Move Type: Medium Walker Move 5 Spot 1 I: 18 Melee 90% Ranged 60% Traits: Assault

Weapons
Grasping Talons STR 70 AP 30% Shots 3 Accuracy 100% -0% Range 0
Sickle Claws STR 60 AP 40% Shots 3 Accuracy 100% -0% Range 0

Harridan-
I have to admit this guy is my favorite of the creatures Tyrands get (if only he wasn't so expensive on Forgeworld T_T). Basically a flying Barbed Hierocule in practice, but a bit tougher and faster. When flying is buffed he'll probably need a rebalance.

Req: 1600 Unit Strength: 1 HP: 18 Defense: 95 Type: Titan Move Type: Hover Move: 6 Spot 3 Melee: 70 Ranged: 60 Traits: Flier, Assault

Weapons
2 Bio-cannons STR 90 AP 30% Shots 6 Accuracy 70% -10%/hex Range 4
Titan Scything Talons STR 90 AP 35% Shots 5 Accuracy 90% -0%/hex Range 0

awesome Dayta ( data ) !!

Dayta wrote: I've also neglected to provide stats, primarily because last time I knew GW did not like that and dedicated warhammer forums try to discourage it (GW are very sensitive about their intellectual property).

i agree, besides there is no need to post official codex stats in the first place. all we need is converted armageddon stats.

Dayta wrote:but I want feedback on what I've written so far and see if others think its reasonable.

i'm not a table top player , so i can't give you any solid feedback for now. but the stats look pretty reasonable from 1st glance. also what are the "initiate" stats for those 2 units, that's the only thing missing.

btw since this is really the first draft of the stats we are gathering, there is no need to worry too much about balancing. balance can be easily tweaked and adjusted after fully functional units are released into the community. i suspect there will be lots of balance discussion in the final release thread after people get there hands on those units and played with them. for now our priority for this thread is simply get the stats out as soon as possible for as many units as possible. don't worry too much about balance.

do you think it's reasonable to make 2 variants of hierophant? one is for close assault ( with 3 weapons of ) Bio-titan Scything Talons, Bio-plasma torrent , and some sort of close range poison cloud attack ( i read from somewhere that they have this poison attack i think )

the other one is focused on ranged attack with 2 Bio-cannons, Spine-cloud Spray, Spore Mine Swarm Spitter

once again, thanks a lot for your stats contribution!

Well the Hierophant has no variants. It's a complete package with all the joy.
Two Bio-cannons, Spore Cloud, Scything Talons, Lash Whip and Toxic miasma. The top it off it has regeneration and is agile
Spore Cloud works only against infantry. Lash Whips provide an initiative bonus at melee. Toxic miasma is a one-time thing in the table-top and is much weaker in effect than Spore Clouds otherwise relative similar.

All stuff we can't model properly as we lack the traits for it

Xadie wrote:Well the Hierophant has no variants. It's a complete package with all the joy.
Two Bio-cannons, Spore Cloud, Scything Talons, Lash Whip and Toxic miasma. The top it off it has regeneration and is agile
Spore Cloud works only against infantry. Lash Whips provide an initiative bonus at melee. Toxic miasma is a one-time thing in the table-top and is much weaker in effect than Spore Clouds otherwise relative similar.

All stuff we can't model properly as we lack the traits for it

The version of IA I'm looking at has the 3 weapons options, and the newer Apoc book doesn't show said options. May have been faq-ed though, I haven't looked at those in a while.

The base biotitan has the biocannons and talons. A close range variant probably need the biocannons w/ the torrent/ and talons, as otherwise it'd be a bit of a pushover. The dakka variant would probably be better w/o the aa gun and with the talons, simply due to flying units being not very good and biotitans typically always being scary in melee. Not as separated, but bit more fluffy. With your suggested variants the req would likely be decrease for both. Ranged version would likely need a slight price decrease due to low accuracy, and close likely a decrease because of how it is harder to apply, although more effective when so. Lot of theory-crafting in the last 2 sentences though.

As for Initiative, I was thinking probably +1 their imperial counterparts. They have the same initiative as each other in game, which is higher that the warhounds in melee, but seperating them more would likely be better and make the Hierodule more worth it by comparison. Will be thinking through the other 2 AI units (harridan and dimachaeron). Will get those up soonish and then start working through elites, heavy support, troops, HQ and fast attack roughly in that order. Tomorrow is off so should get some rough stats for a lot of those up if you don't mind me doing that.

Dayta wrote:Tomorrow is off so should get some rough stats for a lot of those up if you don't mind me doing that.

Just fire away!



Also as far as i know: all hierophant come with two Bio-cannons, Scything Talons, Lash Whip and Toxic miasma. Also they are agile, have Regeneration and a Warp Field. But they have the option to get max one upgrade which is either Incendiary Ichor, Swarm Incubation Chamber, Spine-cloud Spray, Bio-Plasma Torrent or Spore Mine Warm Spitter.

EDIT: rechecked hierophant again. - Way too many apocalypse books ^_^

Xadie wrote:

Dayta wrote:Tomorrow is off so should get some rough stats for a lot of those up if you don't mind me doing that.

Just fire away!



Also as far as i know: all hierophant come with two Bio-cannons, Spore Cloud, Scything Talons, Lash Whip and Toxic miasma. But they have the option to get max one upgrade which is either Incendiary Ichor, Swarm Incubation Chamber, Spine-cloud Spray, Bio-Plasma Torrent or Spore Mine Warm Spitter.

Same, I got confused as to what you were referencing when you said they have it all, my bad.

Also here are the Elites, req cost/unit size are the areas I'm most unsure about (im trying to think about multiplayer+single player). Criticisms welcome.

Lictor-
The more traditional character assassin in 40k lore, and the core of an unusual but powerful tourney winning list. Its greatest strengths have to do with deepstrike, so it’ll likely need something to help. Weapon system will hopefully be enough.

Req 350 Unit Strength 4 HP 4 Defense 40 Initiative 18 Type: Heavy Infantry Move Type: Leg Heavy Move: 5 Spot: 3 Melee: 90 Range:60 Trait: Assault

Weapons
Monstrous Rending Claws STR 50 30% Shots 2 Accuracy 80% -0%/hex Range 0
Monstrous Scything Talons STR 60 AP 10% Shots 3 Accuracy 100% -0%/hex Range 0
Monstrous Flesh Hooks STR 50 AP 0% Shots 2 Accuracy 80% -10%/hex Range 1

Zoanthropes-
Typically used for anti-armor. Uses physic powers as its weapon. Has a good save, squishy.

Req 500 Unit Strength 6 HP 2 Defense 85 Initiative 8 Type: Heavy Infantry Move Type: Leg Normal Move: 3 Spot: 4 Melee: 60 Range:70 Trait: Leadership

Weapons
Warp Blast STR 70 AP 50% Shots 2 Accuracy 100%-10%/hex Range 2

Hive Guard-
A tough unit that is pretty good vs armor. The cannon ignores los and cover.

Req 600 Unit Strength 6 HP 6 Defense 70 Initiative 6 Type: Heavy Infantry Move Type: Leg Heavy Move: 3 Spot: 1 Melee: 70 Range:60 Trait: none

Weapons
Impaler Cannon STR 70 AP 10% Shots 2 Accuracy 100% -0%/hex Range 2 Indirect, Siege


Venomthrope-
Used for its ability to give cover to other units, the venomthrope is not good in combat, but very poisonous.

Req 200 Unit Strength 4 HP 4 Defense 40 Initiative 7 Type: Infantry Move Type: Leg Normal Move: 3 Spot: 1 Melee: 60 Range:60 Trait: Assault

Weapons
Poisoned Lash Whips STR 30 AP 0% Accuracy 100% -0%/hex Range 0 Terror

Haruspex-
A giant mouth.

Req 550 Unit Strength 4 HP 7 Defense 55 Initiative 7 Type: Walker Medium Move Type: Walker Medium Move: 4 Spot: 1 Melee: 60 Range:60 Trait: Assault

Weapons
Grasping tongue STR 50 AP 10% Shots 1 Accuracy 100% -0%/hex Range 1 Terror
Crushing Claws STR 70 AP 40% Shots 3 Accuracy 90% -0%/hex Range 0

Pyrovores-
Not that great a unit tabletop, but could be very good here.

Req 400 Unit Strength 6 HP 4 Defense 45 Initiative 5 Type: Heavy Infantry Move Type: Leg Normal Move: 3 Spot: 4 Melee: 60 Range:60 Trait: Assault

Weapons
Flamespurt STR 40 AP 0% Shots 4 Accuracy 100-0%/hex Range 1 Terror
Acid Maw STR 45 AP 20% Shots 2 Accuracy 100% -0% Range 0

Dayta wrote: Same, I got confused as to what you were referencing when you said they have it all, my bad.

Nah, I was confused because I looked at first in the Apocalypse book from 2008 >_<

Xadie wrote:

Dayta wrote: Same, I got confused as to what you were referencing when you said they have it all, my bad.

Nah, I was confused because I looked at first in the Apocalypse book from 2008 >_<

No problem, they've released like 3 or 4 versions of the most common big guys/lords of war.

Here is the Heavy Support ideas. Realized I forgot Initiative in the elites so will go back and fix that.

Heavy Support

Carnifexes-
The first big guy, and still wrecking things. Skreamer Killer is the talons+bio-plasma, dakkafex is the devourers. Will list the other weapons for other variants.

Req ~700 Unit Strength 6 HP 6 Defense 55 Initiative: 3 Type: Heavy Walker Move Type: Walker Medium Move: 4 Spot: 1 Melee: 60 Range:60 Trait: Assault

Weapons
2 Carnifex Scything Talons STR 80 AP 20% Shots 4 Accuracy 100% -0% Range 0
Carnifex Scything Talons STR 60 AP 20% Shots 3 Accuracy 100% -0% Range 0
Bio-plasma STR 60 AP 30% Shots 2 Accuracy 100% -10% Range 1
2 Devourer with brainleech worms STR 40 AP 0% Shots 4 Accuracy 100 -10% Range 2
Heavy Venom Cannon STR 70 AP 10% Shots 2 Accuracy 100% -10% Range 3
Stranglethorn Cannon STR 50 AP 0% Shots 3 Accuracy 100% -10%/hex Range 3 Terror
2 Wrecking Claws STR 110 AP 40% Shots 2 Accuracy 85% -0%/hex Range 0

Biovore
Living artillery.

Req 550 Unit Strength 6 HP 4 Defense 45 Initiative: 1 Type: Heavy Infantry Move Type: Leg Normal Move: 3 Spot: 1 Melee: 60 Range:60 Trait: Support
Weapons
Spore Mine Launcher STR 30 AP 10% Shots 3 Accuracy 100-10%/hex Range 4

Trygon
Initially an uber creature, was brought down to lesser levels but is still good in its own right, but not the terror it was. Prime Variant has upgraded electric attack.

Req ~800 Unit Strength 6 HP 8 Defense 55 Initiative: 16 Type: Walker Move Type: Walker Medium Move: 4 Spot: 1 Melee: 80 Range:60 Trait: Assault, Fearless Prime: Leadership, Assault, Fearless

Weapons
2 Monstrous Scything Talons STR 60 AP 10% Shots 5 Accuracy 100% -0%/hex Range 0
Bio-electric pulse STR 40 AP 0% Shots 3 Accuracy 100% -10% Range 1
Bio-electric pulse w/ Containment spines STR 40 AP 0% Shots 5 Accuracy 100% -10% Range 2

Mawloc
A creature built entirely on deepstrike
Req ~700 Unit Strength 6 HP 8 Defense 55 Initiative: 12 Type: Walker Move Type: Walker Medium Move: 4 Spot: 1 Melee: 60 Range: 0 Trait: Assault, Fearless

Weapon
Terror From the Deep STR 50 AP 20% Shots 6 Accuracy 100% -0% Range 0

Exocrine
Love plasma? So does this guy.

Req ~800 Unit Strength 6 HP 8 Defense 55 Initiative: 8 Type: Walker Move Type: Walker Medium Move: 4 Spot: 1 Melee: 60 Range: 60 Trait: Assault, Fearless

Weapons
Monstrous Scything Talons STR 60 AP 10% Shots 3 Accuracy 100% -0%/hex Range 0
Bio-plasmic cannon STR 60 AP 30% Shots 3 Accuracy 100% -10% Range 0

Tyrannofex
Hardest normal monstrous Creature to kill

Req ~800 Unit Strength 6 HP 8 Defense 65 Initiative: 6 Type: Heavy Walker Move Type: Walker Medium Move: 4 Spot: 1 Melee: 60 Range: 60 Trait: Assault, Fearless

Weapons
Fleshborer Hive STR 40 AP 0% Shots 6 Accuracy 100% -10%/hex Range 2
Rupture cannon STR 100 AP 10% Shots 2 Accuracy 90% -10%/hex Range 3
Monstrous Scything Talons STR 60 AP 10% Shots 3 Accuracy 100% -0%/hex Range 0

few remarks how i would interpret certain abilities:

move through cover: that's easy to model. With the help of movement types you can edit it so that one movement type can cross terrain easily and use that for move through cover units.

scout, infiltrate, deepstrike: as soon as the scout-trait is fixed by developers I would model those abilities with that trait for sequential movement, as it catches somewhat the redeploying nature of those abilities. Well until we get something like a deep strike system by the developers, if we get them.

Fleet: +1 movement allowance
Leap: also +1 movement allowance

Furious Charge: maybe add an additional weapon profile with range 0 and bulky? It's the closest we can get to catch that characteristic.
Hammer of Wrath: I would model it the same as Furious Charge and let both stack.

Briefly skimming through fast troop choices (writing the reasoning verbose takes way toooooo long)

(Basic) Gargoyles:
Basically (terma-)Gaunts with wings. Compared to gaunts I would give +1 movement on top of the "move through cover"-treatment
They blinding venom which has a blind and poison special effect. As we don't have any special traits that resemble both, we can't really model it. I hope we get soon some traits to model combat bonuses against unit types. So we can give poison weapon a bonus against infantry units - but until that idk

As a variant:
Gargoyles (with Adrenal Glands)
same as basic Gargoyles, but with better close combat charge and higher speed.

(basic) Harpies:
The light tyranid boomber. It is equal in pointcost with the Leman Russ Exterminator, to give a relation.
In the tabletop without taking flatout movement into account, it has a move distance of max 24", that is 4x times that of normal infantry!
Unfortunately there are no initiative modifying traits at the moment, so we won't be able to model its Sonic Screech ability.
But give it assault, fearless, it's close combat attacks have fear and very good armor penetration on it's close combat attacks plus a bulky support range 1 attack similar in strength as the regular melee attack, but just one shot (vector strike). All because it is a flying monstrous creature and they get a lot of goodies
As it's range weaponry is shoot from the Sky they should get indirect.
I would also give the Stranglethorn Cannon fear to catch somewhat it's pinning effect.
Spore Mine cysts are basically bomb thrower, give it range 1 and it will resolve before the harpy swoops down to tear apart its victim

Harpies with Stinger Salvo
like basic Harpy but with additional Stinger Salvo Weapon (lots of shots)

Harpies with Cluster Spines
like basic Harpy but with Cluster Spines. It is a (large) blast weapon, at the moment difficult to model (especially to distinct it from the Stinger Salvo)

Hive Crone:
Tyranid variant of the air superiority fighter. In many ways similar to harpies but different armament. Their vector strike is quite a lot stronger because of "raking strike" special rule.
Besides to it's (flamer like) drool cannon it comes with 4 tentaclids - i would treat it as having 1 tentaclids statwise, because on the tabletop they are one-use only (and the munition system is not functional ingame or is it?). Tentaclids should have a good armor penetration (effective against armour because haywire) and also anti-air. If we should get a anti-vehicle trait, tentaclids should get it
They also have the option for Stinger Salvo or Cluster Spines.

Ravener Brood
The faster, lighter armored, tyranid warrior. Compared to normal infantry give it +2 speed, move through cover. Of course also assault.
They have deep strike...
You could add variants with ranged weapons.

Shriek Brood
Relative similar to Raveners. Less initiative, no deepstrike but it's a Synapse Creature. Also i would give only +1 speed and the "move trough cover" move type compared to standard infantry. From the equip options their similar to warriors. So overall "just" lighter and faster tyranid warriors.

Sky-Slashers
Flying rippers. No deepstrike. They should get +1 movement and stuff over the rippers.

Spore Mines /Mieotic Spore Mines
Bomb trait

Dimachaeron
Compared to standard infantry i would give: "move through cover"-movement type and Hammer of Wrath-like extra attack on charge. To model it's rampage ability give it another close combat weapon profile with 3 shots and accuracy 33%. Otherwise it also has a lot of rules against all sorts of infantry... maybe we get a fitting trait for it in the future

A Little remark round for heavy support units

Carnifexes-
The first big guy, and still wrecking things. Skreamer Killer is the talons+bio-plasma, dakkafex is the devourers. Will list the other weapons for other variants.

Because of it's battering ram and hammer of wrath rules i would add an additional range 0 weapon profile on strength statistics of its Scything Talons with bulky (so it works only on attack) but 3 shots at 33% accuracy. Also give it the fearless trait and its close combat attacks should cause fear.

They also can take a variety of different tail biomorphs. Which would be an additional close combat weapon. To top it off they also can opt to replace one pair of scything talons with crushing claws, which are better than scything talons and basically eat armor.

Stone Crusher Carnifexes

Special Variant of the Carnifex, that is a huge giant tin opener. Comes just with 2 Wrecker Claws. But those Claws are so potent that they will easily penetrate even super heavy vehicles frontal armor. As if that is not even enough they can opt to bring 2 additional Wrecker Claws (super heavies have no chance when attacked by that guy with 4 claws) or replace it's claws with Wrecker Claws + Bio-Flail. In the Tabletop it allows the Carnifex to make as much attacks as it has enemies in base contact. So potentially it's a rather freaking big amount of attacks. Unfortunately we have currently not a fitting weapon trait to simulate that.
Also it may take Spine Banks, Bio-Plasma, and either Thresher Scythe or Bone Mace.

Trygon
Initially an uber creature, was brought down to lesser levels but is still good in its own right, but not the terror it was. Prime Variant has upgraded electric attack.

Apart of Deep Strike comes with Subterranean Assault. Unfortunately no real weapon trait available that fits. So that pretty much falls flat.

Mawloc
A creature built entirely on deepstrike

More so than Trygon we lack the traits to represent the unit properly :-/ ... maybe at a later point when devs added more traits (hopefully)

Tyrannofex
Hardest normal monstrous Creature to kill

It's standard weapon acid spray is relative similar to blast weapons with a 12" range. Just as a side note, should we get a weapon trait that helps us modelling blast weapons and such.

Toxicrene
Is equipped with Lash whips (overall 6 attacks), acid blood, toxic miasma and chocking cloud. It's extremely poisonous, gets shroud (cover save everywhere => better armor? Or unit type infantry to get full cover bonus?). It chocking cloud attack has a range of 12" and ignores cover. So that would translate into a range 1 attack with the siege trait. Should we ever get a anti-infantry weapon trait. This unit weapons definitely need it.

wow you guys have been busy, absolutely brilliant work!! thank you so much. you just greatly sped up the arrival of the GREAT DEVOURER! are you sure you are not some secret genestealer cult members? i'd better call the inquisition. /looks at dayta and xadie suspiciously.

anyway, give me one more week to finish up the next pack ( pack 6 ) of new units and do some more sound effects. after that there will only be 1 last pack of a few new units and a few old rework units left. by then i should be able to work parallel on both the last of graphics/sound assets AND starting to put everything together for the final full faction addon release. i plan to include 10 fully functional units in the first batch.

in the mean time, you guys keep up the good work and pump out more stats. and i salute you!

btw i realize that the dev will release a patch some time near the end of the month, but that shouldn't affect us, since all the data entries can be easily merged into the newly patched .whdat files. crossing fingers for the dev to release some cool new traits in the new update.

pizzagrenadier wrote:crossing fingers for the dev to release some cool new traits in the new update.

Amen!

An overall response to Xadie's points, then I'll get to doing more unit stats.

Hammer of Wrath: I've been largely ignoring this. The reasons are twofold. First is that units already in game that should have it don't, and including it would require editing those units too for balance. Second is I think for the most part I've been generous with the number of attacks most melee weapons are getting compared to the other fractions, so losing out on hammer of wrath shouldn't be that big a deal.

Direct Rules transfers in general: Been trying to avoid these for the most part, while trying to capture the essence of what they mean. ex: Hierodule moving 5, which fits its agile ability. Was also planning on Gargoyles being hover inf with high move to spice up river defenses and such.

Specificly move through cover: Leg light is basically this, has nearly no slowdown fro moving through terrain, so an entirely new movement type shouldn't be needed.

Carnifexes: There are a lot of possible variants, I kept to what I did to reduce the shear number of them. Tail morphs tend to be one-off attacks, never really seen them used and so didn't include them. The trygon and mawloc both have them too iirc. Given my current proposals I think they will would well enough even without the tail morphs. I do think stone crushers should be included, but forgot since they're in IA, not the codex.

Trygon+Mawloc: Victims of no deepstrike, even so I hope they'll be useful with the weapons they have. May make the Mawloc hover and move fast to represent its ability to burrow again and deep strike again.

Tryannofex: Forgot that >.<

I've been modelling blast weapons for more attacks, as that is done to most of the imperial variants as a solution.

Also I forgot about the Leviathan critters, will do a separate post for them.

Dayta wrote:
Exocrine
Love plasma? So does this guy.

Req ~800 Unit Strength 6 HP 8 Defense 55 Initiative: 8 Type: Walker Move Type: Walker Medium Move: 4 Spot: 1 Melee: 60 Range: 60 Trait: Assault, Fearless

Weapons
Monstrous Scything Talons STR 60 AP 10% Shots 3 Accuracy 100% -0%/hex Range 0
Bio-plasmic cannon STR 60 AP 30% Shots 3 Accuracy 100% -10% Range 0

hey dayta, is the range of exocrines bioplasma cannon a typo? it's pretty much an artillery unit, so the plasma cannon's range should be at least around 4?

likely to be a typo though the Exocrine is definitely no artillery unit. In the tabletop the Bio-Plasmic Cannon has a range of 24" - thats laser rifle range

Dayta wrote: Hammer of Wrath: I've been largely ignoring this. The reasons are twofold. First is that units already in game that should have it don't, and including it would require editing those units too for balance.
[...]
Direct Rules transfers in general: Been trying to avoid these for the most part, while trying to capture the essence of what they mean.
[...]
I've been modelling blast weapons for more attacks, as that is done to most of the imperial variants as a solution.

I completely understand where you coming from. I'm just suggesting how certain aspects could be modeled.
I would redo the overall balance of the game anyway that's why I haven't wrote state lines for the units as they wouldn't be in context with existing units in the game anyway