Slitherine

IDS_SCEN_SIDE1_OBJECTIVES Prevent more than 3 Victory Hexes from being removed from the map. Victory Hexes are removed from the map if an Ork flag occupies that Victory Hex for at least one entire turn.
"victory condition" for defeat: number of side 1 flags on primary objectives is less than 7 (no special turn condition)

Sorry, these both things dont fit.
First, the objective says "prevent 3 VH from removing".
In my savegame I have:
* Not a single vh is destroyed.
* Yes, some of them (4 or 5, there is a factory without a vh golden hex) captured by Orks.
* I own about 6 vh (that could match with victory condition).

I would change:
* victory condition to: vh on map (not matters side1 or side2) < 3 (because the vh will been removed via triggers) BUT: it is not possible, because the editor only knows side1 OR side2 vh
* change the terrain to ruined factory when the vh is removed
* I dont know: should you remove the flag?

To change the "defeat" condition to "more than 2 hv" would not work, because the objectives messages says: "Victory Hexes are removed from the map if an Ork flag occupies that Victory Hex for at least one entire turn."
But it could be the "only one" condition left in this scenario, that fits approximate with the mission objectives.

I read your post 3 times, but did not understand what it was about. Probably something wrong with me.


Looks like it does not track all victory hexes, but only ones which have initial auxilary garrison (conscript + mortar team).
If orks hold any of this for 1 turn, it is considered lost. When you "lose" 3 this way you lost mission.

Victory points near your initial positions (and ones which you control at start) are irrelevant, though they still have golden frame for some reason.

Plaid wrote:I read your post 3 times, but did not understand what it was about. Probably something wrong with me.

Looks like it does not track all victory hexes, but only ones which have initial auxilary garrison (conscript + mortar team).
If orks hold any of this for 1 turn, it is considered lost. When you "lose" 3 this way you lost mission.

Victory points near your initial positions (and ones which you control at start) are irrelevant, though they still have golden frame for some reason.

I understand:
I have to hold 4 victory hexes.
I hold 6 victory hexes, but i lose in this turn.
Not one victory hex is removed from the map, all are visible. (In the editor I see that a victory hex will removed, when a ork unit is on it.)
And the "loss" condition is "to hold less than 7 victory hexes"

I could be as you say: "only ones which have initial auxilary garrison (conscript + mortar team)." But Orks attack the other victory hexes too. And all victory hexes count for the victory condition. I hold all of the "conscript + mortar team" hexes in the turn I lose.

Don't forget, at the beginning of the scenario the Orks are already holding 3 victory hexes. 1 northwest and 2 southwest, next to your deployment zone.
If you do not recapture these VH hexes in turn 1, they will be removed in turn 2. Which means you lose if you don't recapture at least one and hold it.

Dragoon wrote:Don't forget, at the beginning of the scenario the Orks are already holding 3 victory hexes. 1 northwest and 2 southwest, next to your deployment zone.
If you do not recapture these VH hexes in turn 1, they will be removed in turn 2. Which means you lose if you don't recapture at least one and hold it.

Not so sure, I just launched this scenario and skipped turn 1 without recapturing anything. Did not get defeat.

Orks only own 3 VH at the very start of the game. 10 - 3 = 7 you're still safe because you have to prevent more than 3 from being wiped out. If you start off that badly though, you are already off to a really rocky start and any further VH loss, even for a moment, is all it takes for defeat.

The condition of VH being removed is immediate Ork ownership. Extended Ork ownership causes permanent removal of four or more VH on the map, which is the mechanism for permanent destruction. Otherwise the player can just re-take hexes. You can lose control of hexes temporarily and be okay. You can have Orks delete a few VH and be okay. You can't lose control of hexes AND have Orks delete too many. You should have lost in that situation, and you did. As mentioned before, if you look purely at triggers without understanding the story and the lore, you will continue to have these misunderstandings when you try to 'cheat' the system.

No changes necessary, thanks for your feedback though!

Played this mission for quite a while until i completed it, so if four victory hexes got captured or removed at the same time, its instant loss. Not a big deal, but it was unclear from the scenario description for me too. Seemed that i could lose four at ork turn, but still recapture them at my turn, until i figured it out. I might have read the description wrong though.

Plaid wrote:

Dragoon wrote:Don't forget, at the beginning of the scenario the Orks are already holding 3 victory hexes. 1 northwest and 2 southwest, next to your deployment zone.
If you do not recapture these VH hexes in turn 1, they will be removed in turn 2. Which means you lose if you don't recapture at least one and hold it.

Not so sure, I just launched this scenario and skipped turn 1 without recapturing anything. Did not get defeat.

My fault sorry. If you don't recapture those 3 and then lose one more you're done.

Kerensky wrote: Otherwise the player can just re-take hexes. You can lose control of hexes temporarily and be okay.

No changes necessary, thanks for your feedback though!

Kerensky you are not right.
The third victory condition does not allow retake fourth temporarily lost victory hex.
So the change is necessary.

Disagree:

Kerensky wrote:Orks only own 3 VH at the very start of the game. 10 - 3 = 7 you're still safe because you have to prevent more than 3 from being wiped out. If you start off that badly though, you are already off to a really rocky start and any further VH loss, even for a moment, is all it takes for defeat.

The condition of VH being removed is immediate Ork ownership. Extended Ork ownership causes permanent removal of four or more VH on the map, which is the mechanism for permanent destruction. Otherwise the player can just re-take hexes. You can lose control of hexes temporarily and be okay. You can have Orks delete a few VH and be okay. You can't lose control of hexes AND have Orks delete too many. You should have lost in that situation, and you did. As mentioned before, if you look purely at triggers without understanding the story and the lore, you will continue to have these misunderstandings when you try to 'cheat' the system.

No changes necessary, thanks for your feedback though!

Sorry, Kerensky. If you dont know your victory condition, what do you (the player) know(s)?
I see: Prevent more than 3 Victory Hexes from being removed from the map. Victory Hexes are removed from the map if an Ork flag occupies that Victory Hex for at least one entire turn.
I dont see: a mission objective, that give me orders: Hold minimum 7 vh each turn.
Or did I missed this order in the sequences between the scenarios?

My simple question:

Where could I read: "Hold minimum 7 vh at the end of each of your turns!" ?

@Kerensky:
If you add this order to the mission objectives, I am satisfied. Why you did not write this in the mission objectives?

You know the victory conditions you made. When I play a scenario the first time, I don't know these conditions. I only know, what I read at the begin of the scenario. (ironic mode on) Who cheats? Who uses more information as given by the messages? (ironic mode off)
As in other scenarios, I dont understand, why I losed this scenario. No feedback why I lose. No vh was removed. I obeyed the order, but I lose.
This is the point (I dont understand why I lose), that I look in the editor. I would not look in the editor, when I had a feedback why I lose or a clear order at the begin of the scenario.


You see, also other players dont know, what to do. Here a guess, not the knowledge.
Perhaps the mission objectives are not clear for all?

Plaid wrote:I read your post 3 times, but did not understand what it was about. Probably something wrong with me.
Looks like it does not track all victory hexes, but only ones which have initial auxilary garrison (conscript + mortar team).
If orks hold any of this for 1 turn, it is considered lost. When you "lose" 3 this way you lost mission.
Victory points near your initial positions (and ones which you control at start) are irrelevant, though they still have golden frame for some reason.

Bersercker wrote:Played this mission for quite a while until i completed it, so if four victory hexes got captured or removed at the same time, its instant loss. Not a big deal, but it was unclear from the scenario description for me too. Seemed that i could lose four at ork turn, but still recapture them at my turn, until i figured it out. I might have read the description wrong though.

caca wrote:

Kerensky wrote: Otherwise the player can just re-take hexes. You can lose control of hexes temporarily and be okay.
No changes necessary, thanks for your feedback though!

Kerensky you are not right.
The third victory condition does not allow retake fourth temporarily lost victory hex.
So the change is necessary.

I asked me, why there is the 2nd victory condition. The 3rd condition includes the 2nd.



Another "cheat" question: Why I have only 23 core units to deploy and the scenario has 28 placed? In the campaign I don't own units with so high experience (as the prepositioned units). Thats the reason, why the scenarios are so easy (compared to the campaign).