Slitherine

Ave

Please help!

I've just been forced to retreat from the Battle of Malventum, scenario #31. I'd destroyed King Pyrrhus' army all except
for the two elephant units. I had approx. 2/3rds of my army left and all my ammunition had been expended. I watched as these two elephant units began to demolish my army, a unit at a time. What would you suggest I do? What would you do? Which units are effective against elephants, and why ain't I got any?

How did you get through this battle, details please? What was the composition of your army?

Vale

M. Spedius Corbulo

PS. see "Choosing Your Army?", yippee, I got through this battle, thanx guys.
NB. See startling new info. check the posting of 8 Dec. 2005.

Velites are very good to deal with: Elephants dislike missiles a lot.

Light infantry units can be given anti elephant skills

Regards
JDM

Elephants perform horribly in rough terrain, missles clobber them(1 hit kills), all light troops/ skirmishers can be anti-elephant. Also, troops with a high anti-trample aren't bad against them.

miki wrote:Velites are very good to deal with: Elephants dislike missiles a lot.

Thanx for the info. Hope you didn't do as badly as me?

Vale

M. Spedius Corbulo

jdm wrote:Light infantry units can be given anti elephant skills

Regards
JDM

Thanx for the tip.
I've started all over again, and, sure enough, my militia 1's promotion options included anti-elephant specialist. It came up when I was upgrading the squad to level 5. So when next that unit sees an elephant, it's days are limited!!

Ave

M. Spedius Corbulo

Even with anti-elephant, dont attack the elephants directly with the militia. Hit them in a flank after letting them slam into skimishers. Then, disengage the skirmishers and fire from afar.

sum1won wrote:Elephants perform horribly in rough terrain, missles clobber them(1 hit kills), all light troops/ skirmishers can be anti-elephant. Also, troops with a high anti-trample aren't bad against them.

Thank you for the info, it's very helpful.
I do rate this game very highly.

Vale

M. Spedius Corbulo

sum1won wrote:Even with anti-elephant, dont attack the elephants directly with the militia. Hit them in a flank after letting them slam into skimishers. Then, disengage the skirmishers and fire from afar.

Once again you're proving to be a font of much needed, sound advice. You should publish a booklet on the best strategies (or is that tactics) to use in an A versus B situation, I'd buy it.

Vale

M. Spedius Corbulo

Lol- Im just a high school studen, and with a bunch of aps, I dont have the time. Besides, I often tend to ignore casualties and sacrafice units far too often. I tend to do really poorly if the neemy holds against my primary onslaught- sometimes my other units are just there to tie up the enemy, and maybe soften them a little until the combat units arrive.

The thing to note is that because there are so many variables the winning (or loosing) tactics are not easy to define

Terrain skills morale and the ability to issue orders are all factors that vary the outcome greatly

REgards
JDM

sum1won wrote:Lol- Im just a high school studen, and with a bunch of aps, I dont have the time. Besides, I often tend to ignore casualties and sacrafice units far too often. I tend to do really poorly if the neemy holds against my primary onslaught- sometimes my other units are just there to tie up the enemy, and maybe soften them a little until the combat units arrive.

Don't be too modest, you've certainly given some good advice to me.

Vale

M. Spedius Corbulo

jdm wrote:The thing to note is that because there are so many variables the winning (or loosing) tactics are not easy to define

Terrain skills morale and the ability to issue orders are all factors that vary the outcome greatly

REgards
JDM

I'm coming to realize that, although I've been wargaming a long time, I'd forgotten some of the basics. Simply put, it's not always the most obvious which is the right way, sometimes it's a bit more complicated. Learning, within the framework of the game, what works and what does not. Learning the capabilities of your troops and what differences the numerous promotions and equipment upgrades can mean to their fighting prowess, is all a part of it. I've just got to get back to basics.

Vale

M. Spedius Corbulo

Ave,

When I first wrote the opener for this topic I was the tea boy to the apprentice to the asistant novice. I'm now a veteran of over a month's experience and some 100 plus postings. So now I know more than I did then. So what, do I hear you ask?

I know how to kill elephants!!!

There are four troop types who are eligible to receive the promotion option of "Anti-Elephant Specialist". They are the Militia, Skirmisher, Velites and Auxilia. As a secondary part, units that have a chance of surviving an elephant attack need the "Stand Firm" promotions' option. (The "Stand Firm" option is an Anti-trample skill.) They are all Heavy Infantry plus the Auxilia. The Auxilia is the only unit to have both skills.

What do we know about elephants? They like open country. They don't like rough, wet or wooded terrain. So get them on the terrain that they don't like. Don't attack elephants head on, only attack them in the flank or rear. Only attack elephants with either Light Infantry or missiles or preferably both. Don't attack elephants with either Cavalry or Heavy Infantry. Don't attack elephants with your Legate, does the phrase "strawberry jam" ring a bell?

You now have the knowledge to be a first rate killer of elephants. So when you next meet Pyrrhus of Epirus or Hannibal and their elephants instead of standing there shaking with fear you can stand proudly unafraid. You are equipped to point a finger at the elephants and say "You're going down!!!"

Vale

M. Spedius Corbulo

thats why give your elephants missle protection.

OK, I haven't yet faced any pugnacious pachyderms in MP, so the following is SP only.

My experience differs radically from what's written above. I read the advice above before I even had the game, and I acted upon it. By the first battle with Pyrrhus I had 2 light units with Anti-Elephant, and 1 with Advanced Anti-Elephant.

I tried the advice above, implemented it almost exactly, and my light troops (Militia and Skirmishers) got annihilated, without even putting a scratch on the Elephants.

So now I just kill Elephants with my heavies. Stand Firm and Protection from Cavalry are pretty much standard skills for my line units anyway. They take some hits doing it, but my Legionaires and Praetorians chew up Elephants like they chew up anything else.

Sorry. I think this part of the game needs some tweaking. Either that or we just accept that Elephants are an area where Arena Legion is more game than simulation.

Ive never had any serious problems using those tactics versus elephants, but it is remarkably easy to counter them- something the computer doesnt, btw. What you do is follow up the elephants with a unit of heavy infantry, and this keeps them from getting really flanked, and butchers anti-phant troops. Also, screen in front with skirmishers or light cav. Somebody did this to me- enormous velite screen, with heavy cav smashing my anti-screen light cavalry, and then praetorians following two units of elephants. I got clobbered.

(note- I had 4 velites that were anti elephant/advanced anti elephant(50-50), all of them lvl 12 or above, and I also tended to hit them with triarri or auxila in the flank.)