Slitherine

I haven't played one of these games before, but I am very much enjoying myself. I figured I'd go ahead and give my feedback to the devs about the negative things I've noticed so far.

I noticed how the upgraded Annihilator seems to be really good at everything. It's better at killing infantry than the anti-infantry weapons at close range, is it because of the additional heavy bolter?

Flamer weapons seem very ineffective, the only use I've found for the infantry who use them is for mopping up already damaged units. Sending them against full power squads, even against Gretchin; results in nothing but them dying horribly. The Hellhound is awful at killing ANYTHING for its price. Is its sole purpose the terror trait? I feel like traits are really overpriced in this game. *edit* The hellhound is much better used for its terror trait to soften up squads for assault, but it still does lackluster damage for it's price I feel. I really hope they add a trait which lets flamers ignore 25% of cover or something.

Some of the unit costs are baffling to me. Why does the option for using autopistols even exist if it costs exactly the same as autoguns and is a straight up downgrade? Why does the 500 point Command Salamander cost 300 more points than a normal one? Nobody in their right mind would consider the leadership trait worth 300 resources when you could buy a salamander AND a command squad for only 50 more. *edit* It becomes somewhat more justified when you consider that a command squad with chimera transport is 440 points, but the command squad is quite fast already.

The Vanquisher is terrible at everything that it does, costs a fortune, and to top it off it MISSES all the freaking time. It has horrible base accuracy and the long range of the gun turns it abysmal. I don't understand why anyone would use this tank when a Destroyer is way cheaper and far, far more accurate. Freaking salamanders seem to do more damage to vehicles than Vanquishers just because of their reliability. Maybe it's good for fighting the gargants with super armor? I don't know.

Battle cannons are bad. The only battle cannon tank I might use would be one with the plasma cannon or dozer blade. Even then there are units which accomplish the same things for cheaper. *edit* An Imperial Guard battle cannon should NOT have more difficulty piercing armor than an orks shoota. That's just wrong. Why do shootas have such high armor piercing anyway? It's crazy.

Are sentinals as terrible as they seem? One gun with a single shot? Horrible accuracy? 200 points? WHY? I feel like I have to be missing something here. *edit* Spot distance and movespeed is very good, but it doesn't keep this unit from missing and dying after revealing the enemy.

I wish there were cheaper flyers. These things are absurdly expensive, which I assume is because of their awesome arsenal. That's all well and good, but they're made of paper. This leads me to treating them a lot like artillery units. Except it's not an artillery unit. In the tabletop game fliers make up for their weak armor by being hard to hit, but I'm really not seeing that here. There isn't even an entry for flyers in the manual. I'd much prefer a 400 cost flier with two heavy bolters and a hellstrike missile or something. *edit* Apparently the way fliers are implemented right now is very incomplete. Hopefully this will be fixed in the future.

I'll admit I'm not a huge ways into the game yet, and maybe some of these things are addressed later, but these are bugging me so far.

Agree with many points, but hellhound does reasonable damage to infantry with main flamer.

Are you sure your targets were in range? At 3 it will shoot only bolter, that's ineffective indeed.

Plaid wrote:Agree with many points, but hellhound does reasonable damage to infantry with main flamer.

Are you sure your targets were in range? At 3 it will shoot only bolter, that's ineffective indeed.

I've used them in range, yes. And they do 'okay' damage. My problem is that the weapons that are NOT meant specifically for anti-infantry seem to perform just as well as the Hellhound, and can actually be used on things that aren't infantry.

*edit* Consider the salamander. It has 10 less gun power and armor and one less hitpoint. It also has 10% armor piercing and can shoot 3 spaces, one more movement, two extra spotting range, and it's 100 points cheaper. Which would you rather use? I wish flamers has some ability to ignore some amount of cover.

OOTN

Umm.. I think I disagree. Let's consider this:

Flammer has higher strength and and double the amount of shots. It has the special trait Assault.
Hellhound has higher defense and an inferno cannon which has special traits which is Siege and Terror. It is an offensive weapon to route out the defender.

I think you are using both of the units above incorrectly. In fact I use to have the same problem with Flamers until I used the to assault. Move next to unit and attack. The do much better than the other infantry.
The flamer doesn't have any range, It is an assault squad. I like them quite well. I do agree the Flamer should have a little armor piercing.

Slots are limited, that's why you would want a Command Salamander over a Salamander and a Command squad. Another reason is recon units gain experience faster.

The real question is why would you want a Command Salamander (500 cost) over a Command Squad (440 cost)and a Chimera transport?

This is answered by play style. If you play defense you choose the CS and Chimera. It has higher Strength and Hit Points. It will take more punishment.. Weakness with this combination is when the CS is not loaded on the Chimera. The CS takes allot of damage as it gets attacked more often.

If you pick the Command Squad, you have higher offensive capability and better weapons.

As far as the units with Auto Pistol vs Autogun, you are correct. The Unit should be cheaper with the Autopistol.

Sentinels, I agree don't like them very much. The upgraded version is much better. I also agree it should a 5% accuracy increase.
The benefit of the Sentinel is it's movement type and it is a recon unit. Laser cannon is good for armor targets. The long range and ability to move over rivers is a plus. I wish there was an additional upgrade to another type that had an increase range of one.

And a player has to learn how to use this unit.

Flyers, again we have to use it like a recon unit. After some practice I kind of like them. We may be able to fix your issue of hard to hit. If we were to add a trait. This trait would decrease the accuracy of units firing at it by 2%. That is equivalent to one skull of experience. Lets petition for an additional trait.

sdeix75 wrote:the scout tank is pretty good ( 3 range on weapons) especially if you can upgarde to commander.

commanders are essentiall for helping your units regain CR (morale) every turn by being adjacent to them

One of my favorite tactics is to put 1 command unit almost permanently attached to my artillery units. That way, they never suffer from morale degradation and can blast away at 100% efficiency for the entire duration of a scenario.

As for Infantry, see these examples. Sure the Leman Russ Annihilator can shoot from range safely, but Assault infantry really grinds up the enemy, provided you soften up your target sufficiently before sending them in! Just wait till you see some of the late game infantry too, they don't even need targets softened up for them!



compared to



All that said, fine tuning of some units is a never-ending endeavor, and we are definitely collecting data for changes to be applied to the next upcoming patch!

Flyers, again we have to use it like a recon unit. After some practice I kind of like them. We may be able to fix your issue of hard to hit. If we were to add a trait. This trait would decrease the accuracy of units firing at it by 2%. That is equivalent to one skull of experience. Lets petition for an additional trait.

Somebody really REALLY needs to redo the manual. It doesn't even mention any of these special abilities, I have to guess what most of them do. I didn't even know the Hellhound was a 'siege' unit, or what that even does. I'll try abusing Terror, perhaps the Hellhound is more about softening up targets for charge than anything else.

I'll admit I didn't take the scouting abilities of the sentinal into account. I'll try them out again sometime, but the idea of just flat out missing my only shot with them and dying immediately after discovering the enemy isn't too appealing.

I still disagree wholeheartedly with you about the command salamander. 300 points difference is just way, way too much for the addition of leadership, and I will never, ever use one. I do not think 300 points makes up for the slot you save, and giving a scouting unit command feels like it ruins the entire point of a scout anyway. The points cost that your using seems incorrect as well. Command salamanders are 500 points, command squads are 350.

Flyer and AA traits are not really to the point they need to be. Flyer units and their trait is supposed to protect them from being decimated by normal weapons fire, and the 'AA' trait on units like the Hydra is supposed to be the answer to units who rely on this trait to survive. That is clearly not happening currently.

As for the manual and some other related topics...

lordzimoa wrote:We don`t disagree and are working hard to correct it, but eg. you quote the PzC series, just compare v1.00, that we released in July 2011 to the current one v1.23 version... it was much, much worse and had far few features upon release.

But people forget..., if we would have added at release what we want and will include into this game series. This would be released in 2016.

What we do promise is to work as fast and hard as we can and we will bring this game far and above the level that PzC has got now and much faster!

There is so much coming, we preferred it to be in on day one, but due to many, many aspects I cannot get into, this was simply not possible.

We had a point that we had to say this is good enough to start the series... we just need some time! People will enjoy this series for many years to come, and we will support, expand and improve it, that is a promise.

Little by little one travels far.

OOTN, you are correct. I fixed my post above.

Command Salamander (500 cost) over a Command Squad (440 cost) with a Chimera transport.

Otherwise you can compare a slow moving Command infantry with a Command Salamander. Obviously the movement is a big factor to consider.

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure the Command Infantry Team doesn't provide its command aura if it ends its turn in a mounted state. Price has also been arranged with this in mind, but if that is not the case, an adjustment may not be unwarranted.

Kerensky wrote:I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure the Command Infantry Team doesn't provide its command aura if it ends its turn in a mounted state. Price has also been arranged with this in mind, but if that is not the case, an adjustment may not be unwarranted.

If that's true, then maybe, MAYBE I might use one at that price. Still a stretch in my opinion since command squads can move 4 anyway, but I'm probably just stubborn about this.

Kerensky wrote:I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure the Command Infantry Team doesn't provide its command aura if it ends its turn in a mounted state. Price has also been arranged with this in mind, but if that is not the case, an adjustment may not be unwarranted.

Good point. I can't remember this either.

Let's check this out and add it to the Combat Mechanics - Tips & Tricks & Guides thread and the game manual.

Updated the OP to represent stuff I've learned in this thread.