Slitherine

I like the game as it is (played through the tutorial and started the Act1). However, there are some points that should be addressed :
- Rate of fire is not displayed in the unit description. As a result, it is really difficult to understand which unit is good against what. The only basis I have is my knowledge of 40K and the price of the unit gives you an hint of its performance.
- I find it really difficult to understand which unit is better against what. Perhaps, it should be added in the tutorial.
- In tutorial, there should also be a introduction on the influence of cover/armors/etc. You can always refers to the manual (like in game like WiTE), but I am not sure that the same public is targeted.
- There is no place where I can get the briefing during play (or I haven't found it). That is bad.
- You cannot restart a map (in the menu, but I cannot click it).
- Why is there a "reserve list", as you cannot have more units that deployment slots. I would like to have reserve units depending of the map/scenario.
- Until now, I would not say that the campaign dialogs got me into a nice story, but I am sure that it will be better with the other acts.
- You cannot upgrade if you don't have a free slot.
- I haven't found a quick save key, is there one ?

Some side notes:
- Why do Ogryn move slower than infantry and even Ratling ? They should have a movement of 4, not 2.
- It is strange that you can retaliate against ballistic weapons such as mortar.

produit wrote:I like the game as it is (played through the tutorial and started the Act1). However, there are some points that should be addressed :

- Rate of fire is not displayed in the unit description. As a result, it is really difficult to understand which unit is good against what. The only basis I have is my knowledge of 40K and the price of the unit gives you an hint of its performance.
this is just guess work as i also have no idea either, so hope this is in the manual

- I find it really difficult to understand which unit is better against what. Perhaps, it should be added in the tutorial.
your not the only one, seems if you don't have full insight into the war hammer universe your lost it seems

- In tutorial, there should also be a introduction on the influence of cover/armors/etc. You can always refers to the manual (like in game like WiTE), but I am not sure that the same public is targeted.
different target, yes for a guess

- There is no place where I can get the briefing during play (or I haven't found it). That is bad.
nope already asked and so have others it seems, so your not on your own

- You cannot restart a map (in the menu, but I cannot click it).
button atm is greyed out, don't think it will be in released game, well hope not anyway

- Why is there a "reserve list", as you cannot have more units that deployment slots. I would like to have reserve units depending of the map/scenario.
good question, but have no answer for you either

- Until now, I would not say that the campaign dialogs got me into a nice story, but I am sure that it will be better with the other acts.
also agree, have no idea of the story after finishing it either

- You cannot upgrade if you don't have a free slot.
seems that's a feature and not a bug

- I haven't found a quick save key, is there one ?
might be one, but again haven't been given one or seen a list with any keys on, and as the options menu is also greyed out, it might be in there, or not

Some side notes:
- Why do Ogryn move slower than infantry and even Ratling ? They should have a movement of 4, not 2.
- It is strange that you can retaliate against ballistic weapons such as mortar.

can't answer either of above as i have no idea what they are

Having spent the entire day working through the Beta 4 campaigns I agree with lots of the points raise above and also:
1. I used to play Warhammer 40k so I have some idea about the units but going from the 'safety' of limited unit selection in the tutorial to the full-blown list was mind blowing - there does need to be some way of seeing what is anti-tank or anti-infantry.
2. I initially didn't understand how artillery worked as I assumed it was like Panzer Corps. There needs to be something in the tutorial about hiding behind cover rather than relying on range.
3. There doesn't seem to be much difference between the Space Marines other than colour (I know there are some different units but they all feel the same).
4. What does the 'killed units' button do? I use it to check my mouse is working.
5. There are a few units that are still missing sound effects ie the Thunderhawk
6. Infantry doesn't work, they last seconds and achieve little, you can't even have a large reserve ready to rush into the front line because...
7. A lot of the maps are so large that the spawn points end up being too far away to be useful - by the time my replacements catch up the battle is over.
8. Commanding a titan doesn't feel powerful. Woo-hoo I killed 4 points of Ork infantry after a full barrage, that was 1900 points well spent.
9. I don't feel anything when my troops die. In Panzer Corps I would have to take a moment to recompose myself if one of my core units was killed (and then try and find a current save point to start again from).
10. Please include a briefing button for in-game. And add a pop up to tell me how many points I'm about to spend repairing my troops.
11. Let me do something with glory, how about using it to unlock the different units, or to earn commanders, or get some off-table support.
12. Do the different dialogue options have any effect in-game, I couldn't see anything obvious.

Please don't get me wrong, I love this game and will be ordering it on release (and looking forward to expansions for other races!)

chattytumbler wrote:Having spent the entire day working through the Beta 4 campaigns I agree with lots of the points raise above and also:
1. I used to play Warhammer 40k so I have some idea about the units but going from the 'safety' of limited unit selection in the tutorial to the full-blown list was mind blowing - there does need to be some way of seeing what is anti-tank or anti-infantry.

Unlike in Panzer Corps, there are no separate values against inf and tanks, so it is hard to tell. Weapons with lots of shots are better against infantry, while weapons with high strength, high AP are better against tanks, and armored infantry, but that's about it. For instance, Predator anihilators, or Shadowswords with upgraded weapons are pretty good against infantry too because infantry has a very low troop count.

chattytumbler wrote: 2. I initially didn't understand how artillery worked as I assumed it was like Panzer Corps. There needs to be something in the tutorial about hiding behind cover rather than relying on range.

The tutorial is lackluster indeed.

chattytumbler wrote: 3. There doesn't seem to be much difference between the Space Marines other than colour (I know there are some different units but they all feel the same).

Salamdanders have greater armor. Blood Angels have greater melee and ranged accuracy. Ultramarines have nothing.

chattytumbler wrote: 4. What does the 'killed units' button do? I use it to check my mouse is working.
5. There are a few units that are still missing sound effects ie the Thunderhawk

AFAIK, the thunderhawk is not in game, is it?

chattytumbler wrote: 6. Infantry doesn't work, they last seconds and achieve little, you can't even have a large reserve ready to rush into the front line because...
7. A lot of the maps are so large that the spawn points end up being too far away to be useful - by the time my replacements catch up the battle is over.

Agreed, I posted some suggestions to make infantry useful, but it looks like they won't make it :
http://slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=321&t=54165

chattytumbler wrote: 8. Commanding a titan doesn't feel powerful. Woo-hoo I killed 4 points of Ork infantry after a full barrage, that was 1900 points well spent.

As I pointed out, it is in good part because the titan loadouts are horrible :
The reaver can fire all its weapon at range 3 only (!)
It has a gatling gun, that is good against infantry, and vehicles, and a laser blaster, best used against tanks. So either of this weapons won't work against its target. A specialized titans (2*laser blaster + turbo laser destroyer) would have worked much better.
The Warhound is even worse : Vulcan Mega Bolter has been nerfed, so it is only useful against infantry ( and not that much to begin with), while the plasma blastgun is only good against tanks and super heavies (high AP, high Strength, 2 shots). So there is no situation where both weapons are useful.
Again, a mega bolter Warhound, and a plasma one would have worked much better. Given that the sprites have the weapons on them, it won't be easy to change.

chattytumbler wrote: 9. I don't feel anything when my troops die. In Panzer Corps I would have to take a moment to recompose myself if one of my core units was killed (and then try and find a current save point to start again from).

I dunno, I was a bit angry after my Reaver Titan got one shot by a Stompa after having achieved nothing. But I agree that the longer upgrade paths in Panzer Corps, and the perks made it easier to get attached to the troops.

chattytumbler wrote: 10. Please include a briefing button for in-game. And add a pop up to tell me how many points I'm about to spend repairing my troops.
11. Let me do something with glory, how about using it to unlock the different units, or to earn commanders, or get some off-table support.

Indeed...
Glory could be spent to purchase OP units (super heavies, Space Marine armors, devastator centurions with graviton cannon)

chattytumbler wrote: 12. Do the different dialogue options have any effect in-game, I couldn't see anything obvious.

Some dialogue result in different missions, other in Requisition gain vs glory (I have not checked whether it worked or not), but that's about it.

chattytumbler wrote: Please don't get me wrong, I love this game and will be ordering it on release (and looking forward to expansions for other races!)

I'm still worried the game is not ready for launch in one week, but it sure has a good potential.

One correction, Ultramarines have baseline stats. With their baseline stats (non-inflated accuracy or defense) they come with a lower cost. That may actually be an important consideration when some of the harder difficulties come into play... hint hint!

But aren't the Ultramarines supposed to be better at something? I have not followed the recent lore, but I was under the impression the UM were better at shooting and the BA better at brawling.

They definitely are better at something, especially by their very virtue of being elite Space Marines!

Ultramarine Hellfire Dreadnought is actually one of personal my favorite units.

plenty of hints, but with no sign of an update then, seem what we have is all we are going to have or test?

be honest and just says it, then as it's not the released candidate etc, we can call it a day and move on to other things, as to withhold more fixes and updates so close to release and only test internally behind the door, i for one seem to be not needed and wasted....

if it comes then fine, can be tested, if it doesn't and all that's going to happen is be talked about, but not seen or tested by any beta tester here, i see little point in sitting and waiting around, i hoped waking up this morning i'd have a new jib to do testing the last release version, getting it tested and ready before release day, as that's what we are here for, if it's only to make comments and hear what's in the final version without testing it first, and keep being told you will have to wait, then don't hold your breath is all i'll say

One correction, Ultramarines have baseline stats. With their baseline stats (non-inflated accuracy or defense) they come with a lower cost. That may actually be an important consideration when some of the harder difficulties come into play... hint hint!

I'm very much in agreement with Iain on this one, 1.0 is shaping up to be pretty fantastic. There really is no need for concern, you guys will be in for a real treat once you see for yourselves.

Well that's no big surprise is it

as you both have seen or played the final version so can comment, as nobody else here has, we only comment on what we have, seems to have been a wasted opportunity to have good testers offer there free time to help, only to have there arms tied behind there backs or left sitting waiting with an older version while a newer one was available to test, only not to give the final version to be tested, and has been for me, the only Beta it's happened in, no excuse like time issues etc either thank you, as i'm not as daft as i sound most of the time, if you don't want some stuff testing why ask?

better to not keep saying stuff that you know or should know will openly get open replies that you may or may not like in return...

Patience is a virtue my friend. I know you are super psyched by your ample posts and comments, but these things take time. There are whole teams of people working more than full time to deliver the best product we can. And it is going to be an amazing product!

Patience like time i have in vast supplies, i don't now any longer have to work for a living, i'm disabled and retired now and enjoy forums and testing, and yes i type far too much, then again if i was in the same room you'd also say i spoke too much as well

good luck with release and hope we have helped in some small way, came late to the party and would have like to have been in at the start, as i like to bug find / search tbh....

would have liked to test and reported on final version for you, as i had the time and that's all i have to really say, never like to do half a job, as what i start, i finish, even if it meant going the extra mile and working / testing longer, 8 hours days goes to 10/12 plus isn't a problem to me if results get seen and you feel helpful, as time and boredom is the mind killer, so i like to keep active, well the mind anyway, so 4/ 5am isn't out of the normal for typing online on one forum or another...