Slitherine

Hello, just curious on some thoughts about dragoons in terrain, ie enclosures. Should they count as "protected" like infantry? After all, the assumption is they are dismounted
( I was just surprised in a current game where I so craftily, I thought lol, placed a dragoon in an enclosure to fend off a sea of enemy horse, got charged and my dragoons buggered off the map edge )

TheGrayMouser wrote:Hello, just curious on some thoughts about dragoons in terrain, ie enclosures. Should they count as "protected" like infantry? After all, the assumption is they are dismounted
( I was just surprised in a current game where I so craftily, I thought lol, placed a dragoon in an enclosure to fend off a sea of enemy horse, got charged and my dragoons buggered off the map edge )

Dragoons do count Protection like other infantry. Protection is conferred by obstacles such as hedges.

Enclosures do not provide protection, hedges do. You have to be directly behind a hedge to count protected. If the hedge is on a road in the adjacent square, rather than on the edge of the square you are in, you don't get protection from it - You have to be in the road square to gain the protection of road hedges. (See manual section 14.6.1).

Enclosures slow down cavalry, and cancel "Only in Open Terrain" bonuses, but do not themselves confer Protection.

Hmm... It was an ECW skirmish battle and it was a single tile surrounded on all 4 sides of what I would call hedges(the program might argue different), my dragoon was in it... When my opponent sends his turn back I'll double check what the game states the actual terrain is. Of course I suppose its possible if he was protected, with the small random of evades my dragoons just chickened out!

IIRC the dragoons were in a tile that is an enclosure.

Hi RBS me and my opponent concur that my fleeing dragoon was indeed in a 1 tile enclosure surrounded on all sides by hedges.
In an other game I had a dragoon in a built up area also flee when charged by a light horse unit. Both cases, the dragoon was steady and at full strength

Since they should have been at a reasonable advantage in both case, perhaps they should not have evaded? I realize there likely is and should be some random, but perhaps they are too flighty now? I recall that evades likely were tweeked once or twice.

TheGrayMouser wrote:Hi RBS me and my opponent concur that my fleeing dragoon was indeed in a 1 tile enclosure surrounded on all sides by hedges.
In an other game I had a dragoon in a built up area also flee when charged by a light horse unit. Both cases, the dragoon was steady and at full strength

Since they should have been at a reasonable advantage in both case, perhaps they should not have evaded? I realize there likely is and should be some random, but perhaps they are too flighty now? I recall that evades likely were tweeked once or twice.

Perhaps, but usually they don't evade. Plenty of historical instances of troops "bottling out" when the situation did not merit it. I don't see it happening more often than merited, but Dragoons were not included in the tweak that will be in the patch that goes live next week, so we must keep an eye on them in future.

rbodleyscott wrote:

TheGrayMouser wrote:Hi RBS me and my opponent concur that my fleeing dragoon was indeed in a 1 tile enclosure surrounded on all sides by hedges.
In an other game I had a dragoon in a built up area also flee when charged by a light horse unit. Both cases, the dragoon was steady and at full strength

Since they should have been at a reasonable advantage in both case, perhaps they should not have evaded? I realize there likely is and should be some random, but perhaps they are too flighty now? I recall that evades likely were tweeked once or twice.

Perhaps, but usually they don't evade. Plenty of historical instances of troops "bottling out" when the situation did not merit it. I don't see it happening more often than merited, but Dragoons were not included in the tweak that will be in the patch that goes live next week, so we must keep an eye on them in future.

Ok, I'll chock it up that they hadn't eaten their Wheaties prior to battle. Of note, in both circumstances, they WERE charged in the flank. Even though those terrains negate flank or rear charges, mavbe the "evade AI" is counting that as an excuse to evade? Just a thought...

TheGrayMouser wrote:Of note, in both circumstances, they WERE charged in the flank. Even though those terrains negate flank or rear charges, mavbe the "evade AI" is counting that as an excuse to evade? Just a thought...

It shouldn't do. The test for "is it a flank/rear attack" includes the negation for obstacles and BUAs.

I think TheGrayMouser's issue with Dragoons boils down to just one thing.

He expects them to be more than useless.

I, fortunately am not burdened with that particular delusion.

flatsix518 wrote:I think TheGrayMouser's issue with Dragoons boils down to just one thing.

He expects them to be more than useless.

I, fortunately am not burdened with that particular delusion.

could be! However, I recall a battle in one of the historical scenarious where a single AI dragoon defending an enclosure, defied 2 units of superior cavaliers and two units of commanded shot for multiple turns, routing both shot and disordering a cavalry!

You get what you pay for. Dragoons are cheap.

TheGrayMouser wrote:

flatsix518 wrote:I think TheGrayMouser's issue with Dragoons boils down to just one thing.

He expects them to be more than useless.

I, fortunately am not burdened with that particular delusion.

could be! However, I recall a battle in one of the historical scenarious where a single AI dragoon defending an enclosure, defied 2 units of superior cavaliers and two units of commanded shot for multiple turns, routing both shot and disordering a cavalry!

You must've purchased the Dragoon Guards unit that time....

flatsix518 wrote:

TheGrayMouser wrote:

flatsix518 wrote:I think TheGrayMouser's issue with Dragoons boils down to just one thing.

He expects them to be more than useless.

I, fortunately am not burdened with that particular delusion.

could be! However, I recall a battle in one of the historical scenarious where a single AI dragoon defending an enclosure, defied 2 units of superior cavaliers and two units of commanded shot for multiple turns, routing both shot and disordering a cavalry!

You must've purchased the Dragoon Guards unit that time....

Not so, that was the AI's Dragoon. The good news is, if I lose those respective battles, and unlike FOGAM where you can back trace defeat to a single routed or fragged skirmisher, I cant get all cranky about it