Slitherine

Havuing scanned the list and cobbled together a 650 point army a few of questions spring to mind.

Would 7 BG's really be competitive ?

Seriously

If Kn hit the HF / MF combination, do they fight half against the HF & half v the MF ?

Would the Levy test if MF losing to mounted or HF in combat if they lost ?

Cheers

The knights fight against what they contact, I presume the HF in the front rank.

The BG of mixed foot will count as the heavier .

I think.

If the levy are deployed with the heavy foot in the front rank and the crossbow in the second rank then the knights will all be fighting heavy foot only. The Crossbow will be able to add an impact dice for overhead shooting so on a 1 base frontage the knights will get 2 dice at + and the levy 3 dice at -

If any of the heavy foot have died or the levy are deployed with the medium foot next to the heavy foot then the knight bases fighting the medium foot will have a ++ at impact and the levy will have a - on their cohesion test if they lose.

Thinking about it at impact as the knights are almost certainly lancers the levy will have a -1 on the cohesion test if they lose regardless of having MF in the front rank ot not because of lance. If a heavy foot base dies (and if the front rank are all heavy foot it will have to be one that dies if a base is lost) then unless there is a spare heavy foot base in the rear of the formation it's place will be taken by a medium foot crossbow and all subsequent cohesion tests will be at -1 while fighting the knights because of MF vs mounted.

hammy wrote:If a heavy foot base dies (and if the front rank are all heavy foot it will have to be one that dies if a base is lost) then unless there is a spare heavy foot base in the rear of the formation it's place will be taken by a medium foot crossbow and all subsequent cohesion tests will be at -1 while fighting the knights because of MF vs mounted.

No A mixed BG of heavy & medium tests as if entirely heavy (see p113) so the penalty only kicks in if all the HF have been lost.

sagji wrote:

hammy wrote:If a heavy foot base dies (and if the front rank are all heavy foot it will have to be one that dies if a base is lost) then unless there is a spare heavy foot base in the rear of the formation it's place will be taken by a medium foot crossbow and all subsequent cohesion tests will be at -1 while fighting the knights because of MF vs mounted.

No A mixed BG of heavy & medium tests as if entirely heavy (see p113) so the penalty only kicks in if all the HF have been lost.

By which time the BG is autobroken as they are Average. Which is just as well otherwise we could debate whether a mixed BG ceases to be a mixed BG for the purpose of this rule if all the bases of one type have been removed. Fortunately I think all HF/MF BGs in the lists are Average so the debate need not arise. Though I suppose it also applies to Superior byzantine lancers/bow BGs - if all the lancers are gone, can the archers then evade?

rbodleyscott wrote:
Fortunately I think all HF/MF BGs in the lists are Average so the debate need not arise.

Apart from the Poor ones you mean

I wonder if this is now a challenge to find some that may justify being Superior?

How do the Danish HF/HW + MF/XBow pan out in practice? I was looking at the Union List, it's a unusual combination.

Rgds,
Peter

The main problem seems to be the high cost, nothing to pad out the army, and only 1 BG of LF to take care of any Woodland that might be deployed.

Scrumpy wrote:The main problem seems to be the high cost, nothing to pad out the army, and only 1 BG of LF to take care of any Woodland that might be deployed.

Apologies, I didn't make myself clear. I was wondering about the troop type's effectiveness and so on.

Rgds,
Peter

I have used them a couple of times and find the mixed levy to be pretty good all round troops. They even make half decent terrain troops as heavy weapon isn't upset by terrain and the MF crossbow aren't dissordered by most terrain.

They can just about stand up to knights on a good day and are rather handy against spearmen too.

I concur with Hammy - the Average rating for the infantry can make them a touch fragile against knights and pikemen at impact, so keep a general handy for the CT

I used them at Badcon and found them pretty effective - I finished 4th.

I used 3 BG's of 8. They can give knights a nasty shock....Especially if led by a commander.

At impact I get 12 dice on 5's re-rolling 1's, against 8 dice on 4's re-rolling 1's & 2's
Give them rear support and they should make it into the melee phase intact, and can usually kill a base of knights at impact. (with an average of 4.7 hits)
In melee they're on level term even against H.Armoured knights. (and almost anyone else as well - even pikes & Romans)

At 80pts per Bg they're not cheap, but if supported properly they can be quite effective.

80 points looks cheap to me when I compare them to one of my favourite BGs - 8 base Superior, Armoured Dailami

nikgaukroger wrote:80 points looks cheap to me when I compare them to one of my favourite BGs - 8 base Superior, Armoured Dailami

That may be true but I wouldn't want to face the Dailami with the Danes.... I suspect that the Dailami have a definite edge.

How many points were they at Badcon Terry ?

I suspect at 650 points, 7 BG's 4 TC generals & 1 Fortified camp is not going to do the job effectively.

Badcon was 1000 points.

Gave the Med. Danes a run out today against some Med. Germans, managed to get 9 BGs in the end, although one of them was LArt which did nothing at all in the game.

I do like the HW & XB mix, it seems to work well, I was charged by a Pk block and it managed to survive impact and begin to wear them down in melee. As usual some ingenious dice by my erstwhile opponent helped me out no end, with his xb & hg twice having 7 dice against a Kn BG and scoring 1 hit each time.

The Kn decided enough was enough and butchered the MF Xb in short order before beating up some Kn that decided to charge them.

I can see why people like the army.

hammy wrote:I have used them a couple of times and find the mixed levy to be pretty good all round troops. They even make half decent terrain troops as heavy weapon isn't upset by terrain and the MF crossbow aren't dissordered by most terrain.

They can just about stand up to knights on a good day and are rather handy against spearmen too.

Yeah, I'm building this army now but haven't put it into practice. My theory is that I'm going to TRY to avoid terrain, but not be too bothered by if I need to clear someone out of it. You're armoured so the vast majority of time you've going to be at LEAST +1 (maybe 2) poa with less dice.

Since they can shoot (sure, at a pretty big disadvantage) they can clear terrain by shooting if they really need to, and if you get a hill with rough terrain on it and you're upslope I think it would be a brave medium foot player who would charge you to clear YOU out

Ian

The levy would have some difficulty against veteran legionaires because HW doesn't get a POA vs SSW. I like to deploy the levy as 4 x 6 for more maneuverability. And always max out the Cav.

So, where can I find a good source for Danish/Union banners and heraldry for the late 14th/early 15th century?