Slitherine

Just thinking - this format could work quite well for Napoleonic battles, yes?

This has been discussed several times. Although it seems that Napoleonic warfare could work with P&S, the problem remains that a limitation of the game engine doesn't allow more than 60 or so units per side. And before there isn't a STUB engine-related technical beakthrough concerning that matter we sadly won't see a P&S Borodino or Leipzig.

Ok, but here's a workaround. Why not focus each Napoleonic scenario on a section of each of the bigger battles then ?

I think there are more than enough tactical simulation of the napoleonic era. What is still missing is more a grand-strategy game with a "grand campaign" option than another simulation of Waterloo/Austerlitz/Leipzig.

I personnaly believe than a Northern Wars expansion would be much more appropriate. Fresh, interesting and perfectly within PS framework.
I also think that a "Dutch Wars" (first against Spain/then France) could be great, or an "Ottoman in Europe" (the two battles of Mohacs, battle and siege of Vienna, Ottoman VS Habsburg and Ottoman/Polish wars offer a lot of possibilities).

It would allow us to play with new armies, and these very interesting conflicts are somewhat overlooked in the gaming industry, unlike Napoleon who got the lion's share.

Vadim84 wrote:I think there are more than enough tactical simulation of the napoleonic era. What is still missing is more a grand-strategy game with a "grand campaign" option than another simulation of Waterloo/Austerlitz/Leipzig.

I personnaly believe than a Northern Wars expansion would be much more appropriate. Fresh, interesting and perfectly within PS framework.
I also think that a "Dutch Wars" (first against Spain/then France) could be great, or an "Ottoman in Europe" (the two battles of Mohacs, battle and siege of Vienna, Ottoman VS Habsburg and Ottoman/Polish wars offer a lot of possibilities).

It would allow us to play with new armies, and these very interesting conflicts are somewhat overlooked in the gaming industry, unlike Napoleon who got the lion's share.

Totally agree, there are tonns of napoleonic games. By the way , there is a Freeware game "Field of Strategy " wich contains almost 80 roundbased
Napoleonic battles, my favorite.
http://tpgames.free.fr/FoS/index2.html
On my Website is also a napoleonic game :
http://www.peoplesgeneral.de
But its old graphic.

I would be glad to see battles here after 1700, 7 years war is most desired.

I think the wars of Louis XIV, Freddy and the Great Northern War would suit the engine better.

My guess is Napoleonics next. The engine has already been used in tabletop format which means most of the behind the scenes number crunching is in place. It doesn't matter that there have been plenty (although I can't think of many satisfying ones) before. The period is a big seller,and what this line needs is momentum. That works for all of us. It doesn't matter that the engine won't let you play Borodino at battalion level. Nothing to stop the system playing at brigade level. After all, there aren't formation changes so it's just bodies of troops.

oldbear1962 wrote: That works for all of us. It doesn't matter that the engine won't let you play Borodino at battalion level. Nothing to stop the system playing at brigade level. .

Agree, i made some bad experience with hps games. There you have Monsterbattles which takes 8 houres and more and Designers are proud of it.
Some battles has 300 rounds and hundreds of Units.
But there also a few People who have to work and less time for playing.
2 Maximum 3 houres are enough to Play a battle.

Micha wrote:

oldbear1962 wrote: That works for all of us. It doesn't matter that the engine won't let you play Borodino at battalion level. Nothing to stop the system playing at brigade level. .

Agree, i made some bad experience with hps games. There you have Monsterbattles which takes 8 houres and more and Designers are proud of it.
Some battles has 300 rounds and hundreds of Units.
But there also a few People who have to work and less time for playing.
2 Maximum 3 houres are enough to Play a battle.

I think this is where playing on the computer comes into its own. You can just click on Save and the game will be there waiting when you come back. Which is nice.

Micha wrote:

oldbear1962 wrote: That works for all of us. It doesn't matter that the engine won't let you play Borodino at battalion level. Nothing to stop the system playing at brigade level. .

Agree, i made some bad experience with hps games. There you have Monsterbattles which takes 8 houres and more and Designers are proud of it.
Some battles has 300 rounds and hundreds of Units.
But there also a few People who have to work and less time for playing.
2 Maximum 3 houres are enough to Play a battle.

Haha there are some big battes indeed ie Lepzieg with over 500k men on the field. However, these are operationl battles lasting days.. These games howver have many varients of a battle and smaller section scenarios if you dont want to play the monsta's!

I must confess i tryd a few years to use to hps game but i eventually failed. Thats why i now to try to convert them (not all, but some variants )
to my favorite game "Peoples General ". A monsterjob which will Keep me busy for years. I know peg is old but i love it.
But hopefully we have pike and shoot and so i stopd my 7 years war Project for peg and will wait untill we have the units to this Job here.

Just discussed before, i think this engine should be super for Napoleonic Field of Glory .... anyway, the Pike and Shot engine should be used only for Malburian age (Ramillies, Blenheim) ... or, at least, Seven years war.

In my opinion Pike and shot should provide two add ons, the first for French wars of religion, Dutch wars and Louis XIV wars; and the last one for Malburian age, Seven Years War and.... eventually Seven Years war in America and India; for Napoleonic a new engine based on Battle Academy might be scripted, it won't be long to have it but, in my opinion, one thing is to portrait pike and shot era (that ends with Seven Years war, just think about the doctrines of Marechal Saxe about reintroducing pikes in middle 1700) ... the other thing is to portrait Napoleonic Wars.

Adraeth wrote:Just discussed before, i think this engine should be super for Napoleonic Field of Glory .... anyway, the Pike and Shot engine should be used only for Malburian age (Ramillies, Blenheim) ... or, at least, Seven years war.

In my opinion Pike and shot should provide two add ons, the first for French wars of religion, Dutch wars and Louis XIV wars; and the last one for Malburian age, Seven Years War and.... eventually Seven Years war in America and India; for Napoleonic a new engine based on Battle Academy might be scripted, it won't be long to have it but, in my opinion, one thing is to portrait pike and shot era (that ends with Seven Years war, just think about the doctrines of Marechal Saxe about reintroducing pikes in middle 1700) ... the other thing is to portrait Napoleonic Wars.

Saxe also wanted the ist ranks to have musket proof shields and "velites" to be armed with hypothetical breach loading rifles! I think his point though was that linear tactics had brought about a certain slothfullness on the battlefield. Linear arrays could never capitilize on a breach in the enemy lines the way handier columns could, platoon firing was wastefull of ammo and caused surprising few causalties etc. It wasn't until much later that they figured on devolutions to easily shake out column to line and vice a versa. I personally would rather see 1500-1700 fleshed out more (eastern armies, Mamelukes early ottomans Maximillian Germany etc) prior to diving into other periods

TheGrayMouser wrote: I personally would rather see 1500-1700 fleshed out more (eastern armies, Mamelukes early ottomans Maximillian Germany etc) prior to diving into other periods

Turning eastwards but within the current time frame is a fantastic idea, and could cover conflicts which aren't covered at all by other computer games. China, Persia and India would present some wonderful possibilities!

Micha wrote:

Vadim84 wrote:I think there are more than enough tactical simulation of the napoleonic era. What is still missing is more a grand-strategy game with a "grand campaign" option than another simulation of Waterloo/Austerlitz/Leipzig.

I personnaly believe than a Northern Wars expansion would be much more appropriate. Fresh, interesting and perfectly within PS framework.
I also think that a "Dutch Wars" (first against Spain/then France) could be great, or an "Ottoman in Europe" (the two battles of Mohacs, battle and siege of Vienna, Ottoman VS Habsburg and Ottoman/Polish wars offer a lot of possibilities).

It would allow us to play with new armies, and these very interesting conflicts are somewhat overlooked in the gaming industry, unlike Napoleon who got the lion's share.

Totally agree, there are tonns of napoleonic games. By the way , there is a Freeware game "Field of Strategy " wich contains almost 80 roundbased
Napoleonic battles, my favorite.
http://tpgames.free.fr/FoS/index2.html
On my Website is also a napoleonic game :
http://www.peoplesgeneral.de
But its old graphic.

I would be glad to see battles here after 1700, 7 years war is most desired.

I played this a little and liked it. However, it was all so small that I couldn't really get into it. Too hard to see.

Micha wrote:I must confess i tryd a few years to use to hps game but i eventually failed. Thats why i now to try to convert them (not all, but some variants )
to my favorite game "Peoples General ". A monsterjob which will Keep me busy for years. I know peg is old but i love it.
But hopefully we have pike and shoot and so i stopd my 7 years war Project for peg and will wait untill we have the units to this Job here.

I don't want to hurt your favourite game, I love the whole Panzer General series, but the HPS Napoleon (or other) games are more realistic than the PG. But, you are right, they need a lot of time. However there are smaller scenarios. For example I play the Battle of Quatre Bras (Turns 32) in PBEM.

Solyom2 wrote:

Micha wrote:I must confess i tryd a few years to use to hps game but i eventually failed. Thats why i now to try to convert them (not all, but some variants )
to my favorite game "Peoples General ". A monsterjob which will Keep me busy for years. I know peg is old but i love it.
But hopefully we have pike and shoot and so i stopd my 7 years war Project for peg and will wait untill we have the units to this Job here.

I don't want to hurt your favourite game, I love the whole Panzer General series, but the HPS Napoleon (or other) games are more realistic than the PG. But, you are right, they need a lot of time. However there are smaller scenarios. For example I play the Battle of Quatre Bras (Turns 32) in PBEM.

Criticim will never hurt me. I mod and Play Peg for the only reason could"nt find any modern game for my Projects. Pike and shot is the first for which i
could imagine to do scenarios.
Also agree Peg is far from reality , ist a funsimulation. HPS Games are more realistic but hard to learn and to master and a bad game flow from my sigth.
Pike and shot has learned from their misstakes and they made a outstanding game.