Slitherine

IN 3.1, troops are more powerful with XP. So German can conquer Leningrad in first turn of Barbarossa. It succeed easy if 2 Mots have 2 XP level. At first you need to Amphibious landing attack Sweden in 1941-5, then naval transport some troops to Sweden. Then them can rail to Finland in 1941-7.

There are Soviet garrison units 1xN and 1xNW of Leningrad. How do you destroy these on turn 1 of Barbarossa so you can get 2 mech units on Leningrad itself.

Finland won't usually join the Axis until June 22nd of 1941. So how do you activate Finland early?

Stauffenberg wrote:There are Soviet garrison units 1xN and 1xNW of Leningrad. How do you destroy these on turn 1 of Barbarossa so you can get 2 mech units on Leningrad itself.

Finland won't usually join the Axis until June 22nd of 1941. So how do you activate Finland early?

Let me answer your question since I just suffered from this :
1 Axis concentrate 5 tacs with XP
2 they attack the GARs by tac & BB & Finland corp
3 they launch the Barbarosa around Aug 1941 & conquer Sweden before it .
4 He achived better than the above screenshot & make a breakthrough across the river.

It is quite impressive & creative ! It completely change the battleground situation in 1941 in Ruissia . Quite amazing !

Oh yes. And by the time SW hits, the Russians are still suffering from reduced rail capacity, so their winter offensive never really gets going . Plus there is a long front from Belomorsk to Novgorod which the Russians have to worry about all of those Axis units - in full supply - charging into. It's very depressing.

(I had two INF S and SE of Leningrad and they both got wiped out as well .)

could be fun,

but first you have to commit resources to Sweden and its a late start plus you won't have much air support elsewhere

its also pretty hard to exploit well from here if you don't make good ground elsewhere

Losing Leningrad isn't everything for the Russians. If the German tactical bombers are concentrated in Finland then it means the invasion of Russia in the center or south won't be that strong.

Stauffenberg wrote:Losing Leningrad isn't everything for the Russians. If the German tactical bombers are concentrated in Finland then it means the invasion of Russia in the center or south won't be that strong.

yep, I wouldn't be quaking in my shoes if this happened to me, my first thought would how strong my winter offensive is going to be or how little progress will be made elsewhere

Your winter offensive would be poorer than you might think, as the restrictions on Russian rail capacity would run into 1942.

GogTheMild wrote:Your winter offensive would be poorer than you might think, as the restrictions on Russian rail capacity would run into 1942.

That applies to all late start Barbarossas. I played GS v3.1 against an Axis player who decided to do a late Barbarossa. I think he started in August and just pushed to the Dnepr in 1941. My Russian 1941 winter offensive wasn't so strong, but he didn't get as far east in 1942 as he wanted. The higher Russian production and lower Axis production due to the front line being further west meant that the Russians got the initiative for good in the 1942 winter offensive. Then they pushed the Axis back hard.

I would say you usually suffer as the Axis if you start Barbarossa late. If you use the fortress Europe strategy then it might not matter so much, but if you hope to really hurt the Russians then you need all the turns you can in 1941.

When I play the Russians I don't fear so much losing the north. It would be worse if the Axis gets past Rostov in 1941 so they can try to Baku in 1942. Losing Moscow in 1941 would also hurt a lot. Leningrad actually falls quite often in GS. Some take the city late 1941 and others in the Summer of 1942. When the Russians push towards Berlin then don't even need to bother with retaking Leningrad. The city can be screened and focus could be to push into Germany.

So I'm not worried about a strategy meaning that Leningrad could fall early. Actually this kind of scenario was one reason the Russians fought the winter war. They wanted Karelia from Finland to help protecting Leningrad by pushing the border further west. Stalin knew Leningrad was actually quite exposed.

I haven't yet played as allies in 3.1 so it is speculation on behalf for sure

but in this scenario they can't be pushing everywhere, so I would expect to need less rail capacity to escape?

hah just noticed one of my machines uses a different login - duncanr

richardsd wrote:hah just noticed one of my machines uses a different login - duncanr

You didn't know? I assumed that you were pretending to be a novice in one persona .

GogTheMild wrote:

richardsd wrote:hah just noticed one of my machines uses a different login - duncanr

You didn't know? I assumed that you were pretending to be a novice in one persona .

I am a novice haven't even completed a 3.1 game

richardsd wrote:I am a novice haven't even completed a 3.1 game

richardsd wrote:

GogTheMild wrote:

richardsd wrote:hah just noticed one of my machines uses a different login - duncanr

You didn't know? I assumed that you were pretending to be a novice in one persona .

I am a novice haven't even completed a 3.1 game

Me neither. As a matter of fact I haven't completed a game for several years.

That's the curse of being a beta tester. That means you play until you have the information you need. If it's obvious one side will win and you know why then it's better to start a new game to gather more data about possible game balance issues.

it was fun being a beta tester but my lack of PC skills got the better of me trying to run so many versions

IMHO, a DOW on Sweden is way more trouble than it is worth.

The Axis already get half the resources, so you fight a very strong army in tough terrain for low extra production in a non-strategic part of the map.

Even if you pull it off with minimum casualties, you probably spent too much of your precious oil stockpile that you need for Barbarossa.

Having said all that, I agree that the only sensible way to attach Leningrad is from the Finland side.

Here's how I do it:
-You can put two experienced Mech units on transports, and land them as soon as Finland activates. Land them near Leningrad so they can move into position on the second turn.
-By the way, this also frees up the two Finnish infantry to head north/east and give the Finnish offensive towards Murmansk more of a punch.
-You can also transport one Strategic and one TAC bombers on the same turn. Although you have four units in transport, the Mech's unload when the air fleets load, so you stay in transport limits and avoid penalties
-Use your naval fleets to prevent Russian attacks on the air fleets while in transport
-On the second turn, unload the air fleets and move the Mech's into position. They should be able to batter the two Russian units in front of Leningrad
-As you have unloaded your air fleets into hexes next to the sea, keep your fleets handy to avoid attack from the Russian battleship fleet.
-On turn three onward, attack the two Russian units in front of Leningrad and occupy those hexes with the Mech's
-Then, pound Leningrad red so it cannot fully repair its defender, while attacking the defender once per turn so he doesn't build up entrenchment.
-I don't attack the defender more than once per turn early on, as all you are doing is giving him experience points
-When Leningrad is red, go all-out on the attach with the TAC and Mech's
-The defender cannot be fully rebuild and his low effectiveness lets your units attack at full strength and low risk of casualties
-Even if the Russians swap a full-strength unit for the crippled defender, it is only staving off the inevitable

You will have pulled four high-value units out of Barbarossa, where they will be badly missed. However, the prize is definitely worth it, and the cost is less than slogging your way through all that forest!