Slitherine

I rework the complete Grand Campaign, including better skripts, much better grafics, better and more music, more realism, a morale system (you can fight against hitler loyalists after you completly crushed russia or stay loyal to him - it starts in poland where you can decide to storm warsaw or wait and let the crazy führer bomb the city, your decisions from the beginning will have severe consequencies at once and later on), the most important africa battles, completly new maps (axis try to capture french fleet in algerie, battles after victory in kursk and moscow (these vict. are not enough to compl. defeat russia - their factories have been in the east and the lend lease shipments partially too...), a much longer us campaign (their strong economy is worth more then 3 maps) and much better replayability (partially random spawning where it makes sense)-every game is different. No more conquering of cities hidden in fog of war if you play the map again. It may not be unguarded. Now you can storm Dünkirchen (map whith white sand beaches - looks much better and more realistic now), SE Troops doing horrible things, like they did in reality. No clean war. I show it the way it was.

1939 and 1940 is nearly finished but i have some problems: There are some functions in the editor i don´t understand: (my native language is german - so i hope that i translate the editor sections correctly ....)

1. Etikettaktion=Labelaction: What does this option do and how does it work ?
2. Hex Action: I don´t know how to use this, because there are empty white fields - what to insert under for example: "strings" etc..... - the checkboxes explain themselves but the white boxes ?????
3. Zentrierfunktion= Centerfunction: What this should do is clear but it doesn´t work. Maybe something with the when to happen settings (at the beginning of axis round, at once etc.)
4.Optionen=Options: no function at the moment - what will it do in the future ?
5. The AI: Is there a way to prohibit ai tanks to enter rough terrain ? (human players infantrie kills em so easily there) Is there a way to order ai fighters to ignore all targets except enemy fighters ? I hate it when they attack tanks instead of achieving air souvereignity. A Button "Air souvereignity" would be very appreciated. They should attack always only figherts as long as there are enemy fighters on the map. Then bombers and AFTER they have achieved TOTAL AIR SOUVEREIGNITY then they can attack ground targets.
6. How many skripts per map are possible ? I need many skripts to compensate the sometimes, dumb decisions of the ai......

At last, IF i release my work i will do it in a way that nobody can play it without owning the grand campaign and the main game. If thats not possible i won´t release it and just play it for myself. Although it would be a pity if i am the only one who plays it - its simply the best turn based game at all now - it has so many cool new ideas in it, that i always wanted to see in that kind of game but no company seems to dare to do something really new, to expand the classical gameplay. And besides i did a lot of historical recherché - everybody who plays "Panzer Corps-Endsieg" will learn a lot regarding ww2. Things that many people don´t know. (for example: The french had 6000 (!!!) planes which they didn´t use because of competence disputes - another example of french arrog. lol)

I play that kind of games since the first panzer general and now i can put in all the experince i have gotten. Even poland is better now then all unmodded GC maps. At last: big thanks for Panzer Corps and the editor. I would have never known, how much fun modding is, without your editor. If i could put in night fight, tactical direction (rear or flank attack should matter), better ai, and an economic model you could sell ist as Panzer Corps 2. lol

Eagerly awaiting it.

Metalgery wrote:At last, IF i release my work i will do it in a way that nobody can play it without owning the grand campaign and the main game. If thats not possible i won´t release it and just play it for myself.

I think that if you include maps from the Grand Campaign the player must have it to see those maps. I am not sure but I think that's how it works.
As for the editor, sorry, I don't know anything about it.

Sounds cool, I hope you'll eventually release it.

And yes, if you include content from the DLCs, the system is set up so the person playing your mod will have to have the content you used or he won't be able to play.
However, you mentioned the US, and there are no US missions in the DLC, so I take it you're referring to the original vanilla campaign? I'm not sure this "protection" system is in place with this one, but I think it'd be safe to assume everyone to own it. You can technically play your mod with just AK/AC, I guess, but I _think_ the base maps are included anyway? Maybe somebody can clarify...

How are you planning on achieving "much better graphics"? Are you going to change everything like the DMP mods do? A term you might be familiar with there is "verschlimmbessern"...

About your editor questions, I'd have to check back first.
1) I seem to remember label action means you can change the description of the hex via a script, so you can change "Bridge" to "Ruined bridge" or whatever.
2) Hex action I think means modifying the hex, for example giving it different graphics, but I don't know what you're referring to with the white boxes. I'm going to check this tonight.
5) I think telling AI tanks not to enter rough terrain is basically impossible, unfortunately. The fighter thing might be achievable by altering the ground attack values in the equipment file, so they in fact CANNOT attack ground targets.
Which would be a rather drastic solution, but I can't think of any other.

The other questions I can say nothing about, at least not off-hand. If nobody comments here anytime soon, I suggest checking the more ambitious campaigns like those of bebro and nikivdd and see how the masters did it. If in doubt, you can always try PMing them, but bear in mind that both got hired and are thus usually busy, so at least allow for some time to pass before expecting an answer (and don't be mad if it turns out they don't have time at all).

Hopefully you'll be able to finish your mod and end up posting it here in the end.

Herzlich Willkommen!
_____
rezaf

rezaf wrote:How are you planning on achieving "much better graphics"? Are you going to change everything like the DMP mods do? A term you might be familiar with there is "verschlimmbessern"...

Haha, I hope history will not repeat itself in this case. (verschlimmbessern: (colloquial) To make something worse in an honest but failed attempt to improve it; to disimprove)

However, the if word written with large capital letters in the sentence "At last, IF i release my work i..." had certainly raised some eyebrows, as it reminded me another (former) member of this community who refused to release any of his work in the end for some reason...


By the way I would like to know more about your ideas as well. Any chance for a few screenshots or something?

1. Etikettaktion=Labelaction: What does this option do and how does it work ?

In the English version is named "Tag Action", if I am right. I have never used it, but it seems that with this you can trigger other actions. In effect you can make a chain of actions following each other. You can add or remove a custom named tag to any action and then it will trigger another action if you add that custom named tag to the "Edit Trigger" box.

2. Hex Action: I don´t know how to use this, because there are empty white fields

Here is a detailed explanation of those "empty white fields":
http://slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... 2f#p446637

3. Zentrierfunktion= Centerfunction: What this should do is clear but it doesn´t work. Maybe something with the when to happen settings (at the beginning of axis round, at once etc.)

What it does it to center the screen at any given hex coordinates on the map if certain conditions are met. As with all other actions you have to add when it should happen. However, for some reason it does not seem to work at the beginning of a scenario at turn 1. It does work from turn 2 or if triggered by some other actions. You always have to give the hex coordinates and tick the box "Axis" so that it would happen to the player playing the Axis side.

4.Optionen=Options: no function at the moment - what will it do in the future ?

You have to ask the developer(s) of the game to learn what is in their mind. If you ask me, seeing the current focus on another project (Warhammer 40k) nothing for a while.

5. The AI: Is there a way to prohibit ai tanks to enter rough terrain ?

Not really. However, there are two work-around solutions:
1: if your really want to do so you can modifiy the movement.pzdat file and make all close ("rough") terrain impassable for tanks under any weather conditions. It will also prohibit player tanks from entering those hexes, though. Which is not good.
2. under some circumstances it could be useful to create a zone on the clear hexes and set AI tanks to patrol that zone. Then those tanks would patrol that zone with the clear hexes and would only enter close terrain if they see a tempting target that they can only attack from a close terrain hex.

Is there a way to order ai fighters to ignore all targets except enemy fighters ?

AFAIK, no.

6. How many skripts per map are possible ?

Quite a lot. I think there is no limitation. The big scenario of my Battlefield: Eurpe mod currently contains some 160 scripts and this scenario covers the whole European war between 1941-45, and it works with no problem. I do not really think you would need to use more than that for those small vanilla maps of the DLC campains.

everybody who plays "Panzer Corps-Endsieg" will learn a lot regarding ww2. Things that many people don´t know. (for example: The french had 6000 (!!!) planes which they didn´t use because of competence disputes - another example of french arrog. lol)

I wonder how it could be implemented. Will the French fight each other? (However, please do not make such statements as I think it is not really PC. I do not think that any nation in the world is more arrogant than another. There are different people in all nations, some are better some are not, but it does not end up well if you label a whole nation with something.)

Regards, and I hope we will know more about your promising project soon.

McGuba wrote:

1. Etikettaktion=Labelaction: What does this option do and how does it work ?

In the English version is named "Tag Action", if I am right. I have never used it, but it seems that with this you can trigger other actions. In effect you can make a chain of actions following each other. You can add or remove a custom named tag to any action and then it will trigger another action if you add that custom named tag to the "Edit Trigger" box.

I would have thought you would have used tags in Battlefield Europe - some of the events you have in there would do well with them.

Basically, Let's say you want to make an IS-2 appear on the map when Warsaw is captured by the Russians.

Simply, you will assign Warsaw a Zone (1), and then will add the script
"When Allied flags in Zone 1 are at least 1" This will then be told to fire the event "Create tag 'warsaw_fallen'"
Then, you can assign a trigger to the IS-2 that was deployed somewhere: 'When 'warsaw_fallen' tag is active". Thus, when warsaw_fallen is generated (Capturing the town), the IS-2 will appear.

The main way that tags are used is to generate a simple command when you are trying to affect a large number of units or want to have 2+ simultaneous commands needed to trigger something else.

For the following examples I will say there is only a 75% chance of the event firing

In the former case, you would set the 'warsaw_fallen' command, and then (say we throw another 4 IS-2s into it) you can just assign them to appear when the tag is active, rather than adding a thousand commands to each unit (When Allied flags in Zone 1 are at least 1 & die roll is successful (chance: 75%) & Number of Allied units (specify = IS-2) in Zone 2 [where the first one is located] is at least 1) Do you really want to do that for an entire army of Russians?

Also, tag actions can be removed the same way they are added. Say you don't want to generate the IS-2s after Turn 17:

Turn [17,-1] = Remove tag 'warsaw_fallen'

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Finally, you say that no nation is more arrogant than another. What about the Pirates in the Colonial eras? They seem more arrogant than anyone else.

- BNC

Thanks to the experienced scenario developers for coming to the rescue and answering the questions, sometimes correcting my clumsy attempts at replying. Much appreciated, I learned something too.
_____
rezaf

This sounds like an awesome project. Wish you the best and can't wait to try it.

cedonxp wrote:This sounds like an awesome project. Wish you the best and can't wait to try it.

Agree, but the last visit in this Forum from "Metalgery" until now was last Sunday....He wrote one post and that´s was it...

McGuba wrote:

rezaf wrote:How are you planning on achieving "much better graphics"? Are you going to change everything like the DMP mods do? A term you might be familiar with there is "verschlimmbessern"...

Haha, I hope history will not repeat itself in this case. (verschlimmbessern: (colloquial) To make something worse in an honest but failed attempt to improve it; to disimprove)

However, the if word written with large capital letters in the sentence "At last, IF i release my work i..." had certainly raised some eyebrows, as it reminded me another (former) member of this community who refused to release any of his work in the end for some reason...


By the way I would like to know more about your ideas as well. Any chance for a few screenshots or something?

1. Etikettaktion=Labelaction: What does this option do and how does it work ?

In the English version is named "Tag Action", if I am right. I have never used it, but it seems that with this you can trigger other actions. In effect you can make a chain of actions following each other. You can add or remove a custom named tag to any action and then it will trigger another action if you add that custom named tag to the "Edit Trigger" box.

2. Hex Action: I don´t know how to use this, because there are empty white fields

Here is a detailed explanation of those "empty white fields":

3. Zentrierfunktion= Centerfunction: What this should do is clear but it doesn´t work. Maybe something with the when to happen settings (at the beginning of axis round, at once etc.)

What it does it to center the screen at any given hex coordinates on the map if certain conditions are met. As with all other actions you have to add when it should happen. However, for some reason it does not seem to work at the beginning of a scenario at turn 1. It does work from turn 2 or if triggered by some other actions. You always have to give the hex coordinates and tick the box "Axis" so that it would happen to the player playing the Axis side.

4.Optionen=Options: no function at the moment - what will it do in the future ?

You have to ask the developer(s) of the game to learn what is in their mind. If you ask me, seeing the current focus on another project (Warhammer 40k) nothing for a while.

5. The AI: Is there a way to prohibit ai tanks to enter rough terrain ?

Not really. However, there are two work-around solutions:
1: if your really want to do so you can modifiy the movement.pzdat file and make all close ("rough") terrain impassable for tanks under any weather conditions. It will also prohibit player tanks from entering those hexes, though. Which is not good.
2. under some circumstances it could be useful to create a zone on the clear hexes and set AI tanks to patrol that zone. Then those tanks would patrol that zone with the clear hexes and would only enter close terrain if they see a tempting target that they can only attack from a close terrain hex.

Is there a way to order ai fighters to ignore all targets except enemy fighters ?

AFAIK, no.

6. How many skripts per map are possible ?

Quite a lot. I think there is no limitation. The big scenario of my Battlefield: Eurpe mod currently contains some 160 scripts and this scenario covers the whole European war between 1941-45, and it works with no problem. I do not really think you would need to use more than that for those small vanilla maps of the DLC campains.

everybody who plays "Panzer Corps-Endsieg" will learn a lot regarding ww2. Things that many people don´t know. (for example: The french had 6000 (!!!) planes which they didn´t use because of competence disputes - another example of french arrog. lol)

I wonder how it could be implemented. Will the French fight each other? (However, please do not make such statements as I think it is not really PC. I do not think that any nation in the world is more arrogant than another. There are different people in all nations, some are better some are not, but it does not end up well if you label a whole nation with something.)

Regards, and I hope we will know more about your promising project soon.

Thanks for your help guys. I am quite tired because i work every day for many hours on "pc-endsieg" and my neighbours keep robbing my sleep but i will try to answer your postings: (please forgive me my bad english)

1. The mod was planned only for me so i use content i simply can´t release because i don´t have the copyrights for example an metallica song. (sounds cool if you listen too "landmine has taken my sight taken my speach taken my hearing" while you disarm mines - or "you will go back to the front and die when i say - you blind men") But i have an alternative soundtrack whithout copyright problems. Regarding graphics, i work a lot on this mod, i don´t have the time to draw tiles for myself. So i use tiles from other guys - i didnt askthem. IF they say release is ok, then i will do it. And finally i use maps from the main program, Ac and Gc. I don´t know if slitherine has a problem with that. Only if i get the ok i will release. So you see it´s not my choice - i would love to share it with you all.

2. Its not only how tiles look, its all about how you arrange them. Screenshots will follow - IF the guys who created the tiles agree. The DMP Guys for example had a lot of good looking tiles, but for reasons i don´t know they used the worst looking for the ground. Ugly and dark so the overview is lost especially in the leningrad mod (Heeresgruppe Nord). But in Ostfront there are many great looking tiles. My favorites are winter tiles and destroyed charkow tiles but i quit playing because i didn´t like gameplay (large maps - more driving then fighting but i didn´t play all maps so maybe thats only at the beginning) and i hated that the mods weren´t combined. One of the most interesting things in that kind of game is the role play aspect. I create an elite core army and then i should start from the beginning in kursk ? Besides the "sturmpioniere" where much too strong - they all had "Oleh Dir" powers lol.

3. They make a Wh40k tb ??????? I love 40k. That´s good news if the game is complex and good. Khorne will conquer all - blood for the blood god.

4. A new problem: In my "Mers-el Kebir" Szenario the harbour is guarded by two coastal batteries. The point "Unit action" doesn´t seem to work in the script. I want allied coastal batteries to change to axis guns, if my troops conquer them. The way slitherine solved it in the orig. GC (Dunkerque map the french fortress in the west) is not satisfying for me: I want them to fire at my troops until i conquer the trigger zone. The trigger works perfectly but the unit action simply don´t work. They don´t change from allied to axis. I checked the zone, i tried it with coordinates, i tried "side", flag, even stenght for testing purposes, but no change. Maybe one of the strange editor bugs ? (i encountered some for example i always have to open and close "ai action" till it works)

5. You are right - not all french are arrogant (... dont know how to say in engl.: Pauschalieren wird der Wahrheit niemals gerecht, in jeder halbwegs großen Gruppe findet man jedwede Art von Menschen - Behauptungen a la "Deutsche sind so oder so" sind immer falsch und besten Falls ein Zerrbild der Realität - nur sind menschl. Gehirne bequem - die hochkomplexe Realität überfordert die meisten Menschen und Ihr Bildungsniveau - vor allem eignet sich die komplexe realistische Sicht nicht zur Volksverhetzung.) but i just meant the general staff (high command in engl ?). If a division gets 5 contraire orders in 2 days it shows clearly that the chain of command didn´t work. The germans didnt conquer france because they fought so well - they won because of arrogance and incompetence of the french highcommand. The french alone had the stronger army. In combination with the british they should have never lost. But its no wonder that the french soldiers surrendered by millions, if they get oders that make no sense all the time. De Gaulle for example, one of the few french generals who understood modern warfare with tank armys was to proud to order air support. Thats why he didn´t succeed in reaching the bridgehead at sedan. At least thats what a french docu on arte said....

6. There are only two cases that could prevent me from finishing my mod: Death or a better game like Panzer Corps. (i didn´t finish my civ 4 mod for example because i prefer the 5th part because of one tile battle sys)

7. Regarding the ai tanks in rough terrain problem: What i want is a skript that tells´em never to enter rough terrain except in rare cases like opportunity to kill an important enemy unit, or if an ai artillery provides fire support for example. But without improving the editor that won´t happen.

8. Regarding the air souvereignity problem: What´s so hard for the developers to teach ai planes to do it in this strict oder: 1st planes 2nd bomers 3rd ground targets. Maybe in a future version of the editor. I hate it when the ai could finish of my core unit with two costly attacks, but prefers to do nothing because of the expected casualties. To kill a human core unit is worth ai casualties.

9. I am against racism and nationalism but if hitler had conquered britain i could write in german. (don´t take that too seriously it´s just my sick humor)


Tomorrow a friend of mine, he too loves turn based strategy, will test poland. He played the normal GC and complained that he kills all the russians with his tigers and that its so boring. I am sure he will encounter some surprises in poland. Next update in 2 days with more details of the mod, maybe with screenshots if i get the ok for it.
I wish you a good night which i surely won´t have.

One last thing: do you know good tile sets for fantasy or sci fi tbs ? i would love to create a new fantasy general or star general or maybe a star wars or mechwarrior game......

Metalgery wrote:Only if i get the ok i will release. So you see it´s not my choice - i would love to share it with you all.

You can basically forget about getting a personal permission from many folks, a couple of which have packed their things and left.
Generally, I think if somebody released something out in the wild, it's ok to re-use it or base something on it - as long as you credit the original author.
The known exceptions are HBalck, who insists on his stuff not being used or even modified by anyone else, and DMP, whose policy seems to be that re-use is ok, but you then have to host your mod on their forums/servers exclusively.

Metalgery wrote:2. Its not only how tiles look, its all about how you arrange them. Screenshots will follow - IF the guys who created the tiles agree

Now you're getting silly. Posting a screenshot is of course fair use and you don't need anyone's permission to do so. Claiming otherwise is just a different way of saying "I will NOT release any screenshots".

Metalgery wrote:6. There are only two cases that could prevent me from finishing my mod: Death or a better game like Panzer Corps. (i didn´t finish my civ 4 mod for example because i prefer the 5th part because of one tile battle sys)

Heh, there are several games in the pipeline that might fit that description - Armageddon (the WH40k game) and Order of Battle are strong contenders at least. And depending on how fast you work, there eventually might even be a PzC 2...

Metalgery wrote:8. Regarding the air souvereignity problem: What´s so hard for the developers to teach ai planes to do it in this strict oder: 1st planes 2nd bomers 3rd ground targets. Maybe in a future version of the editor.

Don't hold your breath. The AI is not exactly one of PzCs strong points and it has hardly improved since release.
The AI is now able to make use of unit switching - even if it appears to be semi-random - and can disembark sea or air transported units, but that's all that has changed since release, as far as I'm aware.
A scriptable AI would be splendid, but at the very best, something like that will be in Armageddon or a possible PzC2 - in PzC, you can forget about it, unfortunately.

Metalgery wrote:One last thing: do you know good tile sets for fantasy or sci fi tbs ? i would love to create a new fantasy general or star general or maybe a star wars or mechwarrior game......

Battle for Wesnoth has nice hex terrain. The hexes have a different size and are a bit more granular, so turning them into stuff you can use in PzC will require some work, but it shouldn't be too difficult.
_____
rezaf

rezaf wrote:

Metalgery wrote:Only if i get the ok i will release. So you see it´s not my choice - i would love to share it with you all.

You can basically forget about getting a personal permission from many folks, a couple of which have packed their things and left.
Generally, I think if somebody released something out in the wild, it's ok to re-use it or base something on it - as long as you credit the original author.
The known exceptions are HBalck, who insists on his stuff not being used or even modified by anyone else, and DMP, whose policy seems to be that re-use is ok, but you then have to host your mod on their forums/servers exclusively.

Metalgery wrote:2. Its not only how tiles look, its all about how you arrange them. Screenshots will follow - IF the guys who created the tiles agree

Now you're getting silly. Posting a screenshot is of course fair use and you don't need anyone's permission to do so. Claiming otherwise is just a different way of saying "I will NOT release any screenshots".

Metalgery wrote:6. There are only two cases that could prevent me from finishing my mod: Death or a better game like Panzer Corps. (i didn´t finish my civ 4 mod for example because i prefer the 5th part because of one tile battle sys)

Heh, there are several games in the pipeline that might fit that description - Armageddon (the WH40k game) and Order of Battle are strong contenders at least. And depending on how fast you work, there eventually might even be a PzC 2...

Metalgery wrote:8. Regarding the air souvereignity problem: What´s so hard for the developers to teach ai planes to do it in this strict oder: 1st planes 2nd bomers 3rd ground targets. Maybe in a future version of the editor.

Don't hold your breath. The AI is not exactly one of PzCs strong points and it has hardly improved since release.
The AI is now able to make use of unit switching - even if it appears to be semi-random - and can disembark sea or air transported units, but that's all that has changed since release, as far as I'm aware.
A scriptable AI would be splendid, but at the very best, something like that will be in Armageddon or a possible PzC2 - in PzC, you can forget about it, unfortunately.

Metalgery wrote:One last thing: do you know good tile sets for fantasy or sci fi tbs ? i would love to create a new fantasy general or star general or maybe a star wars or mechwarrior game......

Battle for Wesnoth has nice hex terrain. The hexes have a different size and are a bit more granular, so turning them into stuff you can use in PzC will require some work, but it shouldn't be too difficult.
_____
rezaf

1. I just want to be sure that i won´t get problems with an eventual release. If its ok to use and modify content of other mods then there will be no problem. I am no lawyer so i have to be careful, that´s all.

2. The work isn´t the problem. I could make two maps a day at the moment and i am getting faster every day. The real problem is that i always rework the finished parts because i am getting better through the working process. My design philosophy is the opposite of most companies: i want to release a bug free and polished game. I am very demanding regarding strategy games, so i have to test and rework a lot to reach that level. For example: I have the idea, that if you use Ulrich Rudel you have special reconnaissance infos: warnings of counter attacks f. ex. that you won´t have without him. (if the polish counter offensive gets you from the flank without warning, its very very hard to win the scenario so the recon info really matters...) Thats one small example for many ideas that i have to implent in formerly finished parts of the mod.

3. Thanks for your help and info.

Update: Now i have screenshots but they are too big for this forum and i already have made them 10 times smaller. I don´t want to install photo shop just for that and if i reduce the picz too much they look awful. Does anybody has a solution ? The jpgs are about 500-600 kb

Update 2: I have created a facebook site:https://www.facebook.com/pages/Panzer-C ... 5367619269 with screenshots but most are older ones because the save games don´t show the new changes

Metalgery - I'm not a big fan of DMP's diorama graphics style, but I gotta say your screenshots look outstanding and it's obvious that you put a lot of time and effort into creating your maps.
Congratulations.

You'd deserve a lot more positive comments, but unfortunately, you came at a time where there's a lull of activity - prolific modders have either moved on or are on hiatus right now (I hope the end of summer will bring some of them back).
Hopefully you won't let that discourage you.

It'd be a shame if you would finish the mod and then never release it, but I understand your concerns. I would probably not be that cautious myself, but your stance is definately very respectful of the original creators.
Looks like you used a lot of DMP stuff, so - if you haven't already done so - I think it'd be for the best to register to their forums and ask for their permission there.

Anyway, awesome screenshots, thanks for sharing them.
_____
rezaf

Hello Metalgery, I am a perfectionist myself and constantly re-work everything, so I understand how it can delay getting a mod released. But I wouldn't worry too much about copyrights and lawyers. And although copyright law it isn't my field of expertise, I do know the basics. Some comments might help put things in perspective.

Metalgery wrote:I just want to be sure that i won´t get problems with an eventual release. If its ok to use and modify content of other mods then there will be no problem. I am no lawyer so i have to be careful, that´s all.

rezaf wrote:You can basically forget about getting a personal permission from many folks, a couple of which have packed their things and left.
Generally, I think if somebody released something out in the wild, it's ok to re-use it or base something on it - as long as you credit the original author.
The known exceptions are HBalck, who insists on his stuff not being used or even modified by anyone else, and DMP, whose policy seems to be that re-use is ok, but you then have to host your mod on their forums/servers exclusively.

rezaf, I agree, and you are basically correct, just a sidenote: the 'fair use' policy is USA doctrine, the Europeans use different (and much stricter) standards. I'm just saying this because there are many misconceptions about what is allowed (and guess what, it is a huge grey area). But thanks for helping out, it is nice that people take the time to explain things and help other people.

Metalgery, in case you want to know more about the German system, here is the Wiki page about copyright limitations (and exceptions) in Germany: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schranken_ ... eberrechts Although in this case I wouldn't worry about it, just get modding, and credit the original authors to be safe (and respectful). If anyone complains, well, I'll just put my (professional) opinion here:

(warning: it gets boring)

With regards to the attitude of some modders who are very protective of their works, I can't help but make some observations. DMP mods seem to use a lot of icons/images based on photographs/3D renders (to me, at least). And I see no obvious credit/links going to those who made those original pictures, so I'll have to assume that all DMP icons are based on photos the modders made themselves, or that they used copyright-free images? I usually respect other peoples' wishes about distributing their work but when this work is technically hovering around the legal border of breaching other peoples' copyrights, I think it would be wise not to make a big fuss about protecting your own work unless I was really sure it was 100% yours. But that is just me being cynical, I guess.

rezaf mentions HBalck (aka Dumnorix). I'm not trying to single him out here, there are plenty others (Puma, maybe?) who are very keen on others not changing icons. But to use him as an example: HBalck, while his icons are very nice, his claims about others not being able to use them without his permission are a bit... ironic. The problem is that he uses (and credits) 3D renderings made by others and bases a lot of his icons on them. But a few tweaks here and there, or even a big overhaul of a 3D model, does not make it his own work in the legal sense.

Still, I can understand his wish to protect these images, but his reasons are different than mine: I always ask people to credit me, but honestly that is more to prevent future confusion about who made what and prevent accidentally crediting the wrong person (example: there was a thread a long time ago about Churchlakecity / Puma icons and who made what, some commenters started accusing people of 'stealing' )

On a personal note, what I really do not understand is the logic behind some of the modders. Why post these images on a public forum, wetting peoples' appetites, and then say: "look, but don't touch, MINE MINE MINE" ? I'm happy to see my Panzer 35(t) sneakily making its way into mods, because I like it when 'my' icons are being used to help others create more mods.

Sorry about my rant. Just don't worry about lawyers. It's a hobby, mod & make people happy.

ThvN wrote: I'm happy to see my Panzer 35(t) sneakily making its way into mods

Your Panzer 35(t) did a great job last time round in my private mod.

Update: At the moment i dont have time to even turn on my pc ... but that will change soon. Work will progress and i am really looking forward to it. Russia at last...now the real war starts.

update: Babarossa started with delay because the capture of the french fleet led to an all new sea lion 40 and then i decided that one map for england is not enough: 1st part: bridge head - then isolation and finally battle of london now finished - balkan - greece - krete finished too - at the moment i have two ways of approaching moscow - early or later - it will be possible to conquer and hold moscow but only if the player is very good - then there never will be a demyansk pocket, (besides if you arent good enough you will be transferred to africa) early and later minsk - early and later smolensk are finished - zhitomir is finished..... soon the real interesting part starts: after stalingrad developes a possibility to join a group around a guy called STAUFFENBERG and if you defeat russia totally you can decide to fight hitler and his loyal troops - but then you will loose all se units for sure but dont be sad - you will see them again sorry for my english ... i am in a hurry

41 gets bigger and bigger ..... too many important battles that even the grand campaign didnt cover:
new maps for Endsieg:

Dubno, Uman, Odessa, Vyazma and early Vyazma, Streets of Moscow, Early Streets of Moscow, East of Moscow (or the "rasputiza role change") are finished.

Rostow still has to be done then 42 starts with the horrifiying battle at the bulge of Rshew (nearly 2 million dead soldiers if wikipedia is right - the fight there lasted till 43 - the battlegroup center got quite a beating there) and never a panzer general or corps had it in it)

p.s. forget the older screenshots everything improved grafically now - moscow looks great for example

New Pictures: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Panzer-C ... 5367619269

ThvN wrote:Hello Metalgery, I am a perfectionist myself and constantly re-work everything, so I understand how it can delay getting a mod released. But I wouldn't worry too much about copyrights and lawyers. And although copyright law it isn't my field of expertise, I do know the basics. Some comments might help put things in perspective.

Metalgery wrote:I just want to be sure that i won´t get problems with an eventual release. If its ok to use and modify content of other mods then there will be no problem. I am no lawyer so i have to be careful, that´s all.

rezaf wrote:You can basically forget about getting a personal permission from many folks, a couple of which have packed their things and left.
Generally, I think if somebody released something out in the wild, it's ok to re-use it or base something on it - as long as you credit the original author.
The known exceptions are HBalck, who insists on his stuff not being used or even modified by anyone else, and DMP, whose policy seems to be that re-use is ok, but you then have to host your mod on their forums/servers exclusively.

rezaf, I agree, and you are basically correct, just a sidenote: the 'fair use' policy is USA doctrine, the Europeans use different (and much stricter) standards. I'm just saying this because there are many misconceptions about what is allowed (and guess what, it is a huge grey area). But thanks for helping out, it is nice that people take the time to explain things and help other people.

Metalgery, in case you want to know more about the German system, here is the Wiki page about copyright limitations (and exceptions) in Germany: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schranken_ ... eberrechts Although in this case I wouldn't worry about it, just get modding, and credit the original authors to be safe (and respectful). If anyone complains, well, I'll just put my (professional) opinion here:

(warning: it gets boring)

With regards to the attitude of some modders who are very protective of their works, I can't help but make some observations. DMP mods seem to use a lot of icons/images based on photographs/3D renders (to me, at least). And I see no obvious credit/links going to those who made those original pictures, so I'll have to assume that all DMP icons are based on photos the modders made themselves, or that they used copyright-free images? I usually respect other peoples' wishes about distributing their work but when this work is technically hovering around the legal border of breaching other peoples' copyrights, I think it would be wise not to make a big fuss about protecting your own work unless I was really sure it was 100% yours. But that is just me being cynical, I guess.

rezaf mentions HBalck (aka Dumnorix). I'm not trying to single him out here, there are plenty others (Puma, maybe?) who are very keen on others not changing icons. But to use him as an example: HBalck, while his icons are very nice, his claims about others not being able to use them without his permission are a bit... ironic. The problem is that he uses (and credits) 3D renderings made by others and bases a lot of his icons on them. But a few tweaks here and there, or even a big overhaul of a 3D model, does not make it his own work in the legal sense.

Still, I can understand his wish to protect these images, but his reasons are different than mine: I always ask people to credit me, but honestly that is more to prevent future confusion about who made what and prevent accidentally crediting the wrong person (example: there was a thread a long time ago about Churchlakecity / Puma icons and who made what, some commenters started accusing people of 'stealing' )

On a personal note, what I really do not understand is the logic behind some of the modders. Why post these images on a public forum, wetting peoples' appetites, and then say: "look, but don't touch, MINE MINE MINE" ? I'm happy to see my Panzer 35(t) sneakily making its way into mods, because I like it when 'my' icons are being used to help others create more mods.

Sorry about my rant. Just don't worry about lawyers. It's a hobby, mod & make people happy.

Sorry that my answer is very late, i suffer from various health problems, incluging tendinitis on both hands. (i didnt want to stop working so i learned to work with the left hand - bad idea) Thanks for your help, regarding copyright. I discovered, that all pictures in ostfront (dmp mod) are from a soviet docu. In german we say: "Dont throw with stones if youre sitting in the glass house." So they used stuff that didnt belong to them. And besides: I asked in the dmp forum if its possible to combine their tileset with the grand campaign: Their anser was that this is not possible - technically. So they believe that what i did is not possible. Maybe they couldnt imagine that one guy reworks all maps of the grand camp.(and more) to make the tiles fit correctly. At the end of map design, i plan to rework the tiles, maybe make my own tileset. (the trees are too big for my taste for example)

Another point: I really want to implent a zoomable 3d engine, but that will cost money i dont have. Is it legal to make crowdfunding for a standalone mod ? (kickstarter for example) So you see, at the moment its not sure if the final version will use dmp tileset.

Besides: The replayability in Endsieg is great. I can play ten times the same map and every time the ai does new things. My new unit placement system works great. At the first game of a friend of mine, (tb pro gamer) for example, the AI had nearly all counter attack formations in the south. At his second try he expected the ai to attack from the south. But this time the attack was only partially from the south. At first he thought that he could take the ai with a classic pincer manouver. But then the second attack formation hits him in his back. He learnde quickly that nearly everything in my mod has randomness where it makes sense.

If too lazy to read my full essay explaining everything, short answer is no.

If you want the long answer, keep reading

Metalgery wrote:Another point: I really want to implent a zoomable 3d engine, but that will cost money i dont have. Is it legal to make crowdfunding for a standalone mod ? (kickstarter for example) So you see, at the moment its not sure if the final version will use dmp tileset.

I'm no lawyer, so I can't give you the official answer, but I would assume that because you don't own Panzer Corps entirely (you own a single license to use the software), you cannot go on kickstarter and try to create a new Panzer Corps.

from the license agreement: (yes I'm one of those people who waste their time reading these things occasionally )

.

You may not copy, reproduce, translate, decompile, reverse engineer, disassemble, modify, or create derivative works from the assembled code or any part thereof. The software may contain an Editor that allows purchaser to create new assets, modify existing assets or files or create custom levels, scenarios or other materials for use solely in connection with the existing software ("new materials").

I would consider a new engine for the game a derivative work, and so according to the EULA, you cannot do this.

Purchaser is not permitted to use, or allow third parties to use the Editor and/or any new materials created, for any commercial purposes whatsoever, or in any other software, without the express prior written permission of Slitherine Ltd.

This section basically says that you cannot do anything with PzC for commercial purposes, and that basically means involving money. Kickstarter involves money (although not directly for your benefit), so to some degree you could be in trouble if you go down that road.

- BNC