Slitherine

I posted the following in the end of early access topic. Would like to gauge how most BA players feel about drawing op fire with support vehicles? Don't blame those who do so as it is no where prohibited in rules or the game engine but really don't want to play against that style of play.

My thought is extra VP points for destroyed trucks, then I would welcome the kamikaze op fire rush!

"One item for both BA West Front and BA2 East Front that lessens the realism of the game engines is the common tactic of moving halftracks, AA gun flatbeds, and even trucks forward to draw OP fire before sending in the tanks. I do like some of the scenarios in East Front in which destroying different units earn victory points. For ease of programming maybe jack up the VPs for trucks and other support vehicles, even over the panzers. A side may win the immediate battle but if all their transport is destroyed it's a long walk to the next mission. Either that or (harder to program) a morale check.

My personal rule is imagining myself as a truck driver. If ordered I'll deploy my troops close to the front and take risks but if ordered to charge into the face of enemy armor to draw fire then it's not happening..."

I agree that it is way too gamey. Halftracks that have MGs I would say are different as the player can use the MGs for suppressive fire, etc.

I would also not play with such a person again. Maybe that is the way to handle it rather that raising VPs?

Gerry

Yep this is not really realistic
Maybe we could make it tanks don't target trucks durning oppoment turn

Just had another example this morning but it gives another idea: opponent let a half track escape past Tiger LOS. No problem, let them escape and take the risk. Next he moved a demoralized half track through LOS then go back and forth in an effort to draw op fire. I proposed the no truck rule going forward.

The idea is that no demoralized unit can move toward a known enemy position. That would cut back a little.

If any game developers see this would like their opinions or insight to see if this issue is worthy of attention.

It's something we have spent a lot of time trying to work out, but there isn't an easy solution. We have made some changes IIRC (reduced AP for suppressed units, etc) but every potential solution opens up other exploits or problems.

Cheers

Pip

There are a couple of ways we've tried to minimize it but you have to be careful as it can cause other issues if you go too far. If we stopped units reacting to trucks you could race them forwards with infantry on board, unload them and retire. So not reacting at all creates more issues than it solves!

What we have done:
* Trucks have 1 tile visibility. If you units are set to hold fire, they will not engage units that cannot see them. If you set tanks to hold fire they will not react to trucks unless they are adjacent.
* Suppressed units have their movement greatly reduced and likely means they will stop in their tracks. This means you will use up less reaction shots as the decoy unit cant move as far.
* Some maps score you on points for kills and casualties and VP control. Trucks count as much as other units in this calculation so losing them has a penalty.

We're open to more suggestions but these changes all help reduce the gameness significantly.

IainMcNeil wrote:There are a couple of ways we've tried to minimize it but you have to be careful as it can cause other issues if you go too far. If we stopped units reacting to trucks you could race them forwards with infantry on board, unload them and retire. So not reacting at all creates more issues than it solves!

What we have done:
* Trucks have 1 tile visibility. If you units are set to hold fire, they will not engage units that cannot see them. If you set tanks to hold fire they will not react to trucks unless they are adjacent.
* Suppressed units have their movement greatly reduced and likely means they will stop in their tracks. This means you will use up less reaction shots as the decoy unit cant move as far.
* Some maps score you on points for kills and casualties and VP control. Trucks count as much as other units in this calculation so losing them has a penalty.

We're open to more suggestions but these changes all help reduce the gameness significantly.

Thanks Ian and Pip for your replies.

Only other suggestion I have is to bump up the VP points awarded for trucks, even doubling that of tanks. That would also stop folks taking very great risks with them unloading them right on the front lines (I'm guilty of this. Trucks were a vital aspect of logistics in the war (or trucks would not have made up a good portion of our Lend Lease to the USSR) and just hate for those innocent truck drivers to die!

Was not one of the toyed-with ideas that firing in reaction against trucks would not cost an actual reaction shot?
What would the downside of that be, I wonder. I don't recall in BA2 right now but are trucks set to initial morale of 50 as well?

jcb989 wrote:Was not one of the toyed-with ideas that firing in reaction against trucks would not cost an actual reaction shot?
What would the downside of that be, I wonder. I don't recall in BA2 right now but are trucks set to initial morale of 50 as well?

This is a good solution.

jcb989 wrote:Was not one of the toyed-with ideas that firing in reaction against trucks would not cost an actual reaction shot?
What would the downside of that be, I wonder. I don't recall in BA2 right now but are trucks set to initial morale of 50 as well?

Not costing a shot sounds good as well

Can't take credit for the idea, one of the guys I play with mentioned it but for soft targets it would be good if the tanks could engage with MGs instead of firing their main gun. Understand that tanks had AP and HE rounds but maybe for op fire against trucks and infantry MGs would be used and main gun ready to respond to other armored vehicles. During player's turn player could assign HE rounds against infantry if he wanted...

scole wrote:Can't take credit for the idea, one of the guys I play with mentioned it but for soft targets it would be good if the tanks could engage with MGs instead of firing their main gun. Understand that tanks had AP and HE rounds but maybe for op fire against trucks and infantry MGs would be used and main gun ready to respond to other armored vehicles. During player's turn player could assign HE rounds against infantry if he wanted...

I like that solution