Slitherine

Just making sure I have got this right.

Both shock foot and shock cavalry normally have to charge an opponent within charge reach (there are exceptions) UNLESS they pass a CMT.

This seems as you would expect for Knights, fanatical warbands etc. My reading of it is that it applies to any lance armed mounted troops except lights so this includes Byzantine and similar disciplined mounted. Likewise it applie to Impact foot, offensive spear and pike, so all macedonians, greek hoplites and imperial Roman legionaries as well as impetuous types.

Did I get that right?

Presumably most of the time if the bad guys in front are in charge range and you have shock troops then you would want to charge anyway. But if you decided to NOT charge then you would have to roll for each legionary battlegroup 1 by 1 and any that failed the test would have to charge whilst their colleagues would then NOT be allowed to charge as you already decided not to??

If that is correct then if you have greater than 1 shock battlegroup together within charge range of a viable enemy it would be very risky NOT to let them charge straight away....

Please advise if I have misunderstood. I am OK with this if it is the rules, it just seems slightly unusual, I expected it to say "Undrilled" Shock troops charge if they fail a CMT....

Andy

miffedofreading wrote:Just making sure I have got this right.

Both shock foot and shock cavalry normally have to charge an opponent within charge reach (there are exceptions) UNLESS they pass a CMT.

This seems as you would expect for Knights, fanatical warbands etc. My reading of it is that it applies to any lance armed mounted troops except lights so this includes Byzantine and similar disciplined mounted. Likewise it applie to Impact foot, offensive spear and pike, so all macedonians, greek hoplites and imperial Roman legionaries as well as impetuous types.

Did I get that right?

Yes

Presumably most of the time if the bad guys in front are in charge range and you have shock troops then you would want to charge anyway. But if you decided to NOT charge then you would have to roll for each legionary battlegroup 1 by 1 and any that failed the test would have to charge whilst their colleagues would then NOT be allowed to charge as you already decided not to??

Exactly

If that is correct then if you have greater than 1 shock battlegroup together within charge range of a viable enemy it would be very risky NOT to let them charge straight away....

Risky but not suicidal. If your troops are drilled and have a general with them you will only be forced to charge on a roll of 4 on two dice so it's not that common. Undrilled troops without the direct control of a general are a different issue.

Please advise if I have misunderstood. I am OK with this if it is the rules, it just seems slightly unusual, I expected it to say "Undrilled" Shock troops charge if they fail a CMT....
Andy

The whole point of the rule is that some troops really want to get stuck in and Roman Legions are in that category. There are not many instances of Romans or phalangites closing with enemy foot and then just standing there.

If you really don't like it blame Nik, he apparently came up with the concept for DBM some time back.

Hammy

I can live with it. It's just that because it seemed strange there was a good chance I had misunderstood it

Foot don't have to if they would contact mounted though ,hence my tactical plans at the weekend stand and shoot at pikes with LF,either they stand and risk further damage eventually the LF will break them if they stand and take it,alternatively they charge the skirmish line away and get broken up,if they do it singularly they will be isolated so the whole line has to move pulling them out of position,etc etc
The LF then come back and start all over again
David

hammy wrote:
If you really don't like it blame Nik, he apparently came up with the concept for DBM some time back.

Hammy

Its a fantastic mechanism

If I understand this right, my rules should arrive tomorrow, it sounds great. Impetuous legions at last!

Andy, it might help if you think that any troops whose doctrine is to get up close and personal with the enemy will need to be kept on a tight leash when near that enemy, or they will start doing what they were trained to do. Keeping control will be easier if your army has a decent officer corps and drills regularly but might still be a challenge even then. The desire to get things over with is a well documented urge for combat troops and the ability to endure close proximity to the enemy in silence is often the mark of truly exceptional soldiers. Caesar mentions his legions attacking without orders at least twice and Plutarch has Marius' Marsian auxiliaries doing the same a few years earlier. I'm sure I could recall other examples if I thought about it too.

Trev

Jeeesh, not as if the Romans are not powerful enough already !

Trev - spot on, that is exactly the thinking behind the rule