Slitherine

Do mounted pitols get a poa against the shot in a 4+2 P&S all in rough going or only against the pike?

TIA

Hunter

spotteddog wrote:Do mounted pitols get a poa against the shot in a 4+2 P&S all in rough going or only against the pike?

TIA

Hunter

Is your question:

"against any except elephants, battle wagons, impact mounted or non-charging STEADY foot who are any of pike, protected shot or foot with bayonet"

Does the blue above include the red only or the red and green?

I think it includes all of it - red and green... or in other words the pistols get a POA.

The P&S also get the POA, so they are evens.

Thanks RF.

I think its down to if steady = BG or bases.

Hunter

POA's are worked out individually for each base. This means the HF pike are not steady but the MF are steady, so the Horse get Pistol against the HF Pike but not against the MF.

Ben

Thanks.
Hunter

benjones1211 wrote:POA's are worked out individually for each base. This means the HF pike are not steady but the MF are steady, so the Horse get Pistol against the HF Pike but not against the MF.

Ben

Disagree.

The formation is not steady. It is disordered. Therefore the MF (who are steady) cannot be protected.

That said, (and I've had this situation) if the MF were in rough and the pike were in the open, the MF are both stead and protected.

ravenflight wrote:The formation is not steady. It is disordered. Therefore the MF (who are steady) cannot be protected.

No, the steadiness of the various bases does not affect whether or not they are protected - Fragmented or Severely Disordered Muskets will still be protected in fields, villages, behind FFs, in Square with Pike or if they are in a file adjacent to one in their own BG fronted by Pike in any terrain or none. Or, if Commanded Shot, adjacent to mounted.

Disorder and Severe Disorder are only relevant at the BG level when giving support or taking tests.

Dave

daveallen wrote:

ravenflight wrote:The formation is not steady. It is disordered. Therefore the MF (who are steady) cannot be protected.

No, the steadiness of the various bases does not affect whether or not they are protected - Fragmented or Severely Disordered Muskets will still be protected in fields, villages, behind FFs, in Square with Pike or if they are in a file adjacent to one in their own BG fronted by Pike in any terrain or none. Or, if Commanded Shot, adjacent to mounted.

Disorder and Severe Disorder are only relevant at the BG level when giving support or taking tests.

Dave

Yes, they are protected, but they are not 'steady protected' which is what the rules require.

They give a POA for being protected (as per 3rd line of the Impact POA chart) but they are not a steady formation of Protected Shot, and so do not stop the POA for Pistols.

If you look back to a posting in October 2013 under a heading something like protection and terrain or such like you will see this point was clearly answered by both RBS and Nik. They fully support the situation as outlined by Dave.
It came up again during a game between Hunter and I on Thursday and I referred him to that posting. I am not sure whether he did not read the post or was just looking to do a belt and braces situation by raising it again.
In conclusion, I fully agree with Dave, RBS ad
John

Link here:

viewtopic.php?f=107&t=45118

By way of additional backing, if you look up steady in the rule glossary you will see that reference is made to bases rather than battle groups.
John

daveallen wrote:Link here:

viewtopic.php?f=107&t=45118

Sorry, but I think this says EXACTLY what I'm saying.

You lose the ability to stop the Pistols getting the + but maintain the + for being protected (but unsteady) P&S.

I can't read that thread any other way.

I don't see how you read that. Here is the quote from RBS.

"As Nik says, swords count against disordered pike and disordered protected shot, but not against steady. If a pike and shot unit is in uneven or rough going, the pike bases are disordered (unsteady) but the shot aren't - so swords would count against the pikes but not the shot."

Swords count against unsteady protected shot/Pike, Sword does not count against steady protected shot/pike, exactly the same way Pistol does. Therefore as stated above if the Sword doesn't work how come the Pistol does against the shot, also specifically says the shot are not unsteady in the rough going.

Ben

Sorry Ravenflight but the wording is pretty clear and unfortunately I cannot in any way read it the way you do. Ben's point re swordsmen is pretty much a slam dunk as the wording in the rules for eligibility of sword factors is almost identical as for those pistols. Again, I think the definition in the glossary of steady supports this further.
Look on the bright side you will be able to impress your colleagues in New Zealand with your understanding of the rules.
If nothing else the forum has thrown up quite a few areas recently where commonly accepted practice just is not so e.g. shooting over the villages, overlapping from fortifications and so on.
I think if you still feel unhappy then you would need to raise with RBS as it is his response to the October question.
John

marshalney2000 wrote:If nothing else the forum has thrown up quite a few areas recently where commonly accepted practice just is not so e.g. shooting over the villages, overlapping from fortifications and so on.John

I'll see what else I can dig up before BC14

Hunter

A winning strategy for your army would be a good start!!!
John