Slitherine

Now that commanded shot can no longer initiate contact with enemy BG's I'm wondering whether they should no longer be able to exert a Restricted Area as well (this would bring them into line with battle wagons and artillery which similarly cannot charge or intercept).

Any thoughts ?

Z.

HIMO even BG that can't charge must have a RA that's a representation of their capability to shot enemies (no one like to manouvre in front of units able to shoot him)

MatteoPasi wrote:HIMO even BG that can't charge must have a RA that's a representation of their capability to shot enemies (no one like to manouvre in front of units able to shoot him)

Yet you can do whatever you like in front of skirmishers able to shoot.

zocco wrote:Now that commanded shot can no longer initiate contact with enemy BG's I'm wondering whether they should no longer be able to exert a Restricted Area as well (this would bring them into line with battle wagons and artillery which similarly cannot charge or intercept).

Any thoughts ?

Z.

No. Otherwise enemy horse could just turn about and walk away from them. And Stopping them charging is a rules tweak to stop them being used a-historically anyway, it's not the same logic as why artillery and wagons can't charge.

If you face up to them when combined with their own horse, you should be fighting them. If you catch them on their own, they are two-strong units, so you are daft not to have a go at them anyway.

madaxeman wrote:

zocco wrote:Now that commanded shot can no longer initiate contact with enemy BG's I'm wondering whether they should no longer be able to exert a Restricted Area as well (this would bring them into line with battle wagons and artillery which similarly cannot charge or intercept).

Any thoughts ?

Z.

No. Otherwise enemy horse could just turn about and walk away from them.

People can already 'just turn around and walk away from them'. So long as you stay in front of them all is good!

The amendments to commanded shot already outlined by me in the rule questions section would make all of this irrelevant. I should really have posted my proposals in this area of the forum.
John

marshalney2000 wrote:The amendments to commanded shot already outlined by me in the rule questions section would make all of this irrelevant. I should really have posted my proposals in this area of the forum.
John

erm ... that'll be "proposed" amendments then john? and perhaps "covered" rather than "irrelevant". sheesh you turn your back for one minute and another dictator pops up!

I think you will see the word proposals are included in my note. Should you not be working ? Sorry at least in the office.
John

Haven't seen much of RBS on the forum recently. Might be best to have a word with him at Bricton is he's there.
HH

may have been covered further down the thread...

Swedish commanded shot.. still graded as salvo..

if commanded shot are there to provide fire team support to mounted and given commanded shot can not charge anymore.. seems to me that salvo commanded shot should be redefined as musket???

Isn't it bonkers that they have salvo but can't charge?
HH

spotteddog wrote:Isn't it bonkers that they have salvo but can't charge?
HH

Not really. They can receive a charge well enough.

ravenflight wrote:

spotteddog wrote:Isn't it bonkers that they have salvo but can't charge?
HH

Not really. They can receive a charge well enough.

but isn't the role of command shot to provide firepower to the mounted they are detached to? I dont have access to the evidence documents, but wouldnt a block swedish infantry detached as commanded shot to support horse be shooting at "normal" musket ranges. My understanding is that salvo represents delivering a volley just prior to closing to hand to hand? with the option to charge removed, it seems the wrong grading, no? It would be good to get RBS input to understand the logic being applied within the rule set...

I agree with Nigel that Swedish Commanded Shot should be Musket. There was some debate on this prior to the last changes but it didn't make the cut.

kevinj wrote:I agree with Nigel that Swedish Commanded Shot should be Musket. There was some debate on this prior to the last changes but it didn't make the cut.

Salvo does have the effect that they are less effective at shooting at close range than normal muskets....

nigelemsen wrote:

ravenflight wrote:

spotteddog wrote:Isn't it bonkers that they have salvo but can't charge?
HH

Not really. They can receive a charge well enough.

but isn't the role of command shot to provide firepower to the mounted they are detached to? I dont have access to the evidence documents, but wouldnt a block swedish infantry detached as commanded shot to support horse be shooting at "normal" musket ranges. My understanding is that salvo represents delivering a volley just prior to closing to hand to hand? with the option to charge removed, it seems the wrong grading, no? It would be good to get RBS input to understand the logic being applied within the rule set...

Regardless of their real life role, on the games table their real role is to dissuade people from charging second rate mounted with first rate mounted. The Salvo armed commanded shot STILL give + to units they are normally down to, and still receive protection, so I think it's fine as it is.

Well actually they do not give protection to the unit but only the one base they are adjacent too. A determined horse in a single line therefore does not get a lot of help. Now with my marker suggestion!!!
John

marshalney2000 wrote:Well actually they do not give protection to the unit but only the one base they are adjacent too. A determined horse in a single line therefore does not get a lot of help. Now with my marker suggestion!!!
John

Yeah, fair enough. I knew that, but every time I've designed an army to use them in I've had 2 BG's of 2 commanded shot each side of a BG of carbine/pistol armed shooters... so the whole BG is covered.

marshalney2000 wrote:Well actually they do not give protection to the unit but only the one base they are adjacent too. A determined horse in a single line therefore does not get a lot of help. Now with my marker suggestion!!!
John

Should det horse in a single rank get much help...? That would be a disadvantage of the marker idea from where I sit...

Well one rank is probably the formation that determined horse should fight in to get advantage of overlaps etc. The rules at the moment make it very difficult for more than two bases to be supported. Strange situation when Early TYW Swedish for example used their commanded shot for just this purpose. The marker represents the fact that rather than two bases which give a definite placement with the unit, the marker represents very small body of shot interspersed in the cavalry.
Just my thoughts.
John