Slitherine

I started the Africa Korps campaign and was a somewhat shocked to find myself in command of this crappy core. I expected the Italian units to be bad, but... Is there any sense in keeping them instead of selling them off and buy German units? The only unit which isn't bad is the artillery and maybe the Bersaglieri.

I started on general with dice chess and made a last turn decisve victory with a lot of damaged units. Fortunatly I didn't lose a single unit which I hope will help me with the prestige. The core composition isn't to my liking, so I think of selling units and build a core of my own choice. I think I will need fast moving units with tracked, halftracked or all terrain movement. Guess I need Engineers for all this bunkers as well. Compared to the GC a rather small core, but consisting of high quality troops? What about planes? The desert is perfect for airpower, no bad whether, clear terrain. Won't the Allies spam planes and make my airforce suffer? In the European campaigns I don't mind letting the Allies swarm the sky and keeping powerful, overstrengthed AA. But the desert seems tempting to build up a big airforce myself.

Where can I find the campaign path?

In my opinion the italian units are not worth it indeed.
I used the two of the strategic and one of the tac bomber, one artillery, one tank and one bersaglieri of the italians, but they all died sooner or later.
They also have some decent fighters. But overall the german units are much better, so if you don't want to "roleplay", i would switch them out.

That depends on playstyle, i almost never use AA, with 6 Fighters you should be able to always achieve total air superiority, although it was hard on some maps (Tobruk) for me. There are sandstorms, where your air units can't attack, it's basically like snow.
The allies will get planes spawned in later turns, but as long as you keep fighters close to your bombers, the fighters will intercept the enemy aircraft.

grenadier98 wrote:I started the Africa Korps campaign and was a somewhat shocked to find myself in command of this crappy core. I expected the Italian units to be bad, but... Is there any sense in keeping them instead of selling them off and buy German units? The only unit which isn't bad is the artillery and maybe the Bersaglieri.

I've tried a lot of the Italian equipment throughout the campaign, they can be good in supporting roles and some units are actually quite good. Their main problem is lack of late-war upgrades, some can be upgraded in German vehicles like the Panther, Brummbär, Bf 109K and the Hs 129, but I've tried to avoid that to keep the theme.

Infantry: Italian infantry is not very good and they lack the more specialized types. The Bersaglieri is the only one with a '43' upgrade, and trucks only of course. So I upgrade everything into Bersaglieri ASAP.

Tanks: After the first mission, you can immediately upgrade to the M14/41, and they are not bad if used correctly. Italian tanks have some advantages: decent fuel, they cost little (cheap to overstrength) and their CD is 3 instead of the more common 2. Upgrades are not very good, the M15/42 comes very late, so does the P26/40 which is on par with the Panzer IVG. The Germans get the Tiger around the same time the P26/40 arrives.

Recon: Not much choice. The Sahariana is a switchable unit that changes into an infantry unit which has the same stats as a Bersaglieri, but with 3 spotting.

AT: The M41M (90mm) is a poor man's Nashorn, very fragile but cheap.

Artillery: Like you say, these are quite good actually, the self-propelled M40 and M43 are very competative with German units.

AAA: The biggest two are switchers like the German 88mm FlaK.

Fighters: The MC series is OK as a second choice (go after bombers and weakened enemies), I got a lot of use out of them; again the low cost can make it more attractive to overstrength them.

Bombers: Piaggio is very good, the tactical bombers are not very interesting, I usually end up with a SM.79 because you receive an Italian tac bomber with a special hero somewhere.

I think I will need fast moving units with tracked, halftracked or all terrain movement.

I prefer lots of fuel to fast movement, the desert (and dune) tiles eat fuel and supply in those hexes is low, meaning it won't refill completely. The later Pz III versions are particularly difficult to keep running, I try to use the last fuel to get into better terrain where the fuel/ammo is completely refilled.

Guess I need Engineers for all this bunkers as well.

Bunkers can also be attacked by other units, the biggest use of Engineers is in clearing minefields quickly to make holes where you can send troops through.

What about planes? The desert is perfect for airpower, no bad whether, clear terrain.

There are sandstorms, which are like snowy weather... Airpower is very useful in scenarios that have naval units, but later on the Allied air defenses can be deadly. If you want a big airforce, start adding fighters early enough to get them some experience. The FW 190 is very good because of its high fuel stat.

Won't the Allies spam planes and make my airforce suffer? In the European campaigns I don't mind letting the Allies swarm the sky and keeping powerful, overstrengthed AA. But the desert seems tempting to build up a big airforce myself.

Some scenarios have a strong Allied airforce, often the tricky part is obtaining airfields to give coverage over the front; flying back and forth to refuel is a waste of expensive fighters.

Where can I find the campaign path?

Do you have the iPad or PC version? The campaign paths are under the 'Game Reference' in the game's library, accessible through the Menu.

pewp3w wrote: But overall the german units are much better, so if you don't want to "roleplay", i would switch them out..

Hi, fairly new to the game, and currently half way through the AK campaign. How would I "switch" the italian units out?
Thanks

prince_blucher wrote:

pewp3w wrote: But overall the german units are much better, so if you don't want to "roleplay", i would switch them out..

Hi, fairly new to the game, and currently half way through the AK campaign. How would I "switch" the italian units out?
Thanks

Just disband them BETWEEN scenarios after bringing them back to full strength with non-elite-replacements. This will get you their prestige cost back. Then use this prestige and buy the units you want. You should do this as early as possible, so your units can gain more kills and experience as soon as possible.

ThvN wrote:Infantry: Italian infantry is not very good and they lack the more specialized types. The Bersaglieri is the only one with a '43' upgrade, and trucks only of course. So I upgrade everything into Bersaglieri ASAP.

Maybe I keep one Bersaglieri in AK to get the Italian Medals

ThvN wrote:Bunkers can also be attacked by other units, the biggest use of Engineers is in clearing minefields quickly to make holes where you can send troops through.

Paratroopers are good, but dropping them is risky and they will need escort fighters. I like engineers better. They are better at attacking entrenched enemies and forts.

ThvN wrote:There are sandstorms, which are like snowy weather... Airpower is very useful in scenarios that have naval units, but later on the Allied air defenses can be deadly. If you want a big airforce, start adding fighters early enough to get them some experience. The FW 190 is very good because of its high fuel stat.

Yes, I hate naval bombardments! Guess I should get a Ju88.

ThvN wrote:Do you have the iPad or PC version? The campaign paths are under the 'Game Reference' in the game's library, accessible through the Menu.

I have the PC version. I found the campaign path for Africa Korps and Allied Corps. Allthough Allied Corps is extremly easy so far, I like the variance in scenario objectives.

grenadier98 wrote:Just disband them BETWEEN scenarios after bringing them back to full strength with non-elite-replacements. This will get you their prestige cost back. Then use this prestige and buy the units you want. You should do this as early as possible, so your units can gain more kills and experience as soon as possible.

Thanks!

Only use for those Italians would be the 2-3 Steam achievements... and those are just a waste of time! I sell them all off (even Bersag.) at the start of Ras el Mdauuar, and never buy a single one ever again! (Only Germans have the cool tanks... Tanks kill men... Men dead = take city... Take city = Win scenario... Win scenario = Win campaign -> Tanks win campaign!)

- BNC

I didn't sell any of the Italians but upgraded them whenever possible to the best available version. But every time when i lost one of the Italian core units, i bought a German unit. At the start of the Middle East missions i still have a Bersaglieri, a SM 79 tactical bomber, two self propelled artillery and a MC.205 fighter. I lost the Italian tanks early in the campaign but i was happy to replace those with their German counterparts.

I usually keep the Italians - I have ended up with most of them right the way through to India.

The Infantry get upgraded to Berseglieri or Alpini at the first opportunity and the 149mm gun is pretty good as it has RoF 90% - better than the German one which has only 80%. The upgraded tac bomber has 2 spotting and decent Naval attack - good for some scenarios and the Piaggio is good (better still if it had more ammo). Don't forget that early on there are some weak British units you can take on with your sardine can tanks while the German units do the real work.

The only Italian unit I buy are the Sahariana and occasionally a Piaggio Strategic bomber and sometimes an extra 149mm gun. The Sahariana can be handy for the spotting combined with speed and with ability to fight on foot, especially for hunting hangars in Dash to the Wire, but the lack of upgrade means that unless they get good heroes they have limited useful life.

Like most other contributors here, if I lose an Italian unit that doesn't have a useful hero it gets disbanded, but generally they do OK.

Some of the Italian units are rather useless, some are OK and some are even great. The Bersaglieri are quite good and they get a 43 upgrade. The Italian fighter from the MC200 family are only a bit worse then their German counterparts but good enough to get the job done. The Italian artillery is generally quite good. The 149mm artillery gets the job done until the end of the war and the M43 da 105/25 self propelled artillery is imho even better then the German Brummbär. Almost same defense, similar gun but range of 2 instead of 1. The Piaggio P.108 is a very good unit as well.

I dug up an old save from my last AC playthrough at the begin of India and i still have three Bersaglieri, one P26/40 tank (that one really doesn't cut it anymore but i lack prestige to upgrade it a Panther), one 149mm artillery, two M43 da 105/25 (especially the one with the special +5 attack hero rocks), one MC205 Veltro fighter and one Piaggio P.108 bomber. Thats 9 out of a 40 unit core. About 1/4 of my units are Italian. While this quote isn't great it certainly doesn't mean they are not usable.