Slitherine

Hello,
I'm getting along quite good re-basing (or newly basing) my existing armies. But now a certain troop type piles up here, because I don't know how to properly base them. Mostly archers, but also some later roman crossbowmen. This is hard because archers in DBA eg sometimes are treated like 2Psi, or 3Bow, 4Bow, 8Bow... according to the army and period. So can someone tell me how to base these?

1. Cretan Archers (I'd guess 2 on a 40x20mm base)

2. Gallic Archers (Maybe 3 on a 40x20mm base?)

3. All those pesky persian ones... (clueless, could be anything, even mixed bases or formations...)

4. Later Roman Archers (I'd guess 4 to a 40x20mm base)

5. Later Roman Crossbowmen (IIRC were rather skirmishers, so maybe 2 to a 40x20mm base?)

Thanks in advance and good dice to you!

All archers will be on 40x20mm bases for 15mm figures.
Skirmishing archers, and supporting archers, (those classed as Ps in DBM/DBMM/DBA) will be 2 per base.
Massed archers (those classed as Bw in DBM/DBMM) will be 3 or 4 per base (your choice)

Mixed formations (anything classed as Bw(X) in DBM/DBMM) you would have to look at the relevant army list.
The most common method would be having them based the same as archers but with the front bases having some or all of the figures replaced with spearmen or other figures.
Another common method is to be half spearmen (4 figures per base on 40x15) and half archers.

Generally speaking DBA based figures will be fine

2 Ps with bow will be 2 light foot with bow on a 40 by 20
3 Bw or 4 Bw will be 3 or four medium foot with bow on a 40 by 20
8 Bw will depend a lot on the army, Persian sparabara would be OK as 8 figures to a 40 by 40 but probably best as 2 lots of 4 on 40 by 20 if you are rebasing.

I have workd out a way to use my classical Indian without rebasing, I use DBM DBE Bw(x/O) as my bow and my DBM Hd as MF javelinmen.

They work quite well too.

Ok, so it doesn't matter if theres 3 or 4 on a base, thats good. That Persians is really a complex bunch, guess I'll better wait until Immortal Fire before basing anymore of them.

Could someone tell me though, how ancient Greek or gallic archers are classified? Both armies have slingers and javelinmen available also, so I'd guess the bowmen might be regular archers with 3/4 a base. Historicaly this might be to much though... or is there a difference between skirmishers with sling and bow?

Greek and Gallic archers are light foot so 2 to a base. I would aim for multiples of 6 bases.

There is a difference between light foot slingers and light foot archers.

Are archers simply better than slingers or is it a case of horses for courses?

An extra 2" range for 1 point with the LF versions is not bad.

Scrumpy wrote:An extra 2" range for 1 point with the LF versions is not bad.

Yes, but at 1D per 3B some might question effectiveness at that range! Horses for courses of course.

Stev

Is it not 1 die per 2 bases ?

Scrumpy wrote:Is it not 1 die per 2 bases ?

Not when outside effective range, i.e. when shooting at 4-6 MU.

Steve

Ok, as soon as my rulebook arives I'll understand what you guys are talking about

But thanks alot for the answers, now I can re-base everything without worrying.

hammy wrote:Generally speaking DBA based figures will be fine

2 Ps with bow will be 2 light foot with bow on a 40 by 20
3 Bw or 4 Bw will be 3 or four medium foot with bow on a 40 by 20
8 Bw will depend a lot on the army, Persian sparabara would be OK as 8 figures to a 40 by 40 but probably best as 2 lots of 4 on 40 by 20 if you are rebasing.

I have workd out a way to use my classical Indian without rebasing, I use DBM DBE Bw(x/O) as my bow and my DBM Hd as MF javelinmen.

They work quite well too.

I am puzzled here with the mixed battlegroups of Assyrians. They are half medium or heavy foot with hand weapon of some sort and half Medium Foot archers. Can you have suporting arhcers as medium foot as well as the normal light foot? If so can they shoot or just impact phase supporting archery.

All of my Assyrians have spear with psiloi support and this medium foot support malarchy is most distressingly alien to a dbmer.

Anthony

expendablecinc wrote:I am puzzled here with the mixed battlegroups of Assyrians. They are half medium or heavy foot with hand weapon of some sort and half Medium Foot archers. Can you have suporting arhcers as medium foot as well as the normal light foot? If so can they shoot or just impact phase supporting archery.

All of my Assyrians have spear with psiloi support and this medium foot support malarchy is most distressingly alien to a dbmer.

Anthony

In FoG (and in many older rulesets) Assyrian infantry had a front rank of spearmen and a rear rank of archers, the archers could shoot and have some limited effect. DBM changed this to Sp with supporting Ps which is not a particularly good representation of the way Assyrians seem to have fought.

In FoG you get a front rank of HF spear and a second rank of mediun foot bow who can as they are the first shooting rank shoot at full effect. It does sadly mean that Assyrian supporting Ps sadly need rebasing although I suspect that just using your existing Ps figures and declaring them as MF would be fine for a start.

hammy wrote:In FoG (and in many older rulesets) Assyrian infantry had a front rank of spearmen and a rear rank of archers, the archers could shoot and have some limited effect. DBM changed this to Sp with supporting Ps which is not a particularly good representation of the way Assyrians seem to have fought.

In FoG you get a front rank of HF spear and a second rank of mediun foot bow who can as they are the first shooting rank shoot at full effect. It does sadly mean that Assyrian supporting Ps sadly need rebasing although I suspect that just using your existing Ps figures and declaring them as MF would be fine for a start.

Hmm. DBM does the same thing to Feudal Spanish spearmen with bow support, whereas Warrior has the supporting bowmen as close order like the spearmen. Which way will it be in FoG, LF or MF?

Far more likely to be LF in FoG unless we find descriptions of massed archery in the Assyrian/Persian/Byzantine style that justifies MF bowmen - and whilst a little knowledge is a dangerous thing I'm not aware of any such evidence.

hammy wrote:

expendablecinc wrote:I am puzzled here with the mixed battlegroups of Assyrians. They are half medium or heavy foot with hand weapon of some sort and half Medium Foot archers. Can you have suporting arhcers as medium foot as well as the normal light foot? If so can they shoot or just impact phase supporting archery.

All of my Assyrians have spear with psiloi support and this medium foot support malarchy is most distressingly alien to a dbmer.

Anthony

In FoG (and in many older rulesets) Assyrian infantry had a front rank of spearmen and a rear rank of archers, the archers could shoot and have some limited effect. DBM changed this to Sp with supporting Ps which is not a particularly good representation of the way Assyrians seem to have fought.

In FoG you get a front rank of HF spear and a second rank of mediun foot bow who can as they are the first shooting rank shoot at full effect. It does sadly mean that Assyrian supporting Ps sadly need rebasing although I suspect that just using your existing Ps figures and declaring them as MF would be fine for a start.

Great news about the Assyrian foot. Sounds much more plausible than the silly DBM way of representing them. Looking forward to the biblical expansion

Andy