Slitherine

Commanders have to line up corner to corner and edge to edge with a base in a BG. Does this mean that to join a BG they must be capable of moving to such a location? We are playing this rather loosely at present. If a commander is able to move to touch a BG, he gets lined up with the nearest base even if this exceeds his move.

Thats how i play it Roger.

Andy

rogerg wrote:Commanders have to line up corner to corner and edge to edge with a base in a BG. Does this mean that to join a BG they must be capable of moving to such a location? We are playing this rather loosely at present. If a commander is able to move to touch a BG, he gets lined up with the nearest base even if this exceeds his move.

There is no such provision in the rules. (Although it was touch and go at one point). Hence, the general needs to have enough move to get to a legal position.

I had thought that since a General can freely move position within a BG then as long as he can touch the BG then he can be placed in any position within that BG - even if that means he moves an extra 6"

Can't see any real benefit to getting fiddly with Generals movement to be honest - they don't represent any space and can be freely moved if anybody manages to contact their element.

Please feel free to tell me that I have been doing it wrong though!

I think he just did.

dave_r wrote:I had thought that since a General can freely move position within a BG then as long as he can touch the BG then he can be placed in any position within that BG - even if that means he moves an extra 6"

Can't see any real benefit to getting fiddly with Generals movement to be honest - they don't represent any space and can be freely moved if anybody manages to contact their element.

Please feel free to tell me that I have been doing it wrong though!

Dave, you're doing it wrong
I suspect too loose and free with the General's movement will lead to cheese. i.e. You really want to get your general to a BG that is some distance away. In one inter-bound you move him to contact another BG that may be say 4 or 5 bases wide. With "loose and free" you might then put him as a 6th base on the other side of the BG. Next inter-bound, your general continues to move towards his destination having gained 5-6 base widths for free.
I'd imagine your opponent would not be happy...

After reading RBS answer i know now i was playing it wrong i was thinking the same as Dave R but just reading Dave M reply i totally agree with him.

Andy E.

I think whilst making it mandatoryto finish in a legal position, I don't think the rules as they are prevent the jiggery pokery that I am describing.

In fact, I remember RBS stating that once a general has joined a BG you can measure from anywhere from that unit if he chooses to move away.

I could be wrong though. I don't have a strong opinion on this, but would like to know what is legal and what isn't

It would be nice if the authors give a clear explanation because its obvious there is some ways being played differently.
I now personaly think that were a general ends up that is it no moving within a unit unless he declares hes fighting which he then moves to the front rank.

Andy.

The rules clearly say:

"If with a battle group, a commander's base must always be placed in edge to edge and corner to corner contact with a base of this one battle group"

and have nothing in them about any sort of move to this condiction if your movement does let you quite make it. Therefore, IMO it is quite clear that to join a BG the commander's base must be able to get to edge to edge and corner to corner contact with its permitted 7MU move.

Ok Nik thats clear but it as been said that RBS as stated that a general can move anywere within a BG when he as joined it.
Now to me thats when cheese comes in to it,you may have a long line of spearman in 1 rank if he joins it at one end can he then move it to the other end freely then do his move from there. This his why i would like clarification from one of the authors.

Andy E.

andy63 wrote:Ok Nik thats clear but it as been said that RBS as stated that a general can move anywere within a BG when he as joined it.
Now to me thats when cheese comes in to it,you may have a long line of spearman in 1 rank if he joins it at one end can he then move it to the other end freely then do his move from there. This his why i would like clarification from one of the authors.

Andy E.

I'm not sure if RBS said exactly that but if you read page 23 - Movement of Commanders it is pretty clear that Commanders can only be moved the minimum amount NECESSARY to avoid obstructions, enemy, friends etc - not to move within the BG at will.

I'm glad someone raised this topic as I had noticed that all our games were becoming quite loose with regard to commanders and on re-reading the rules it is clear what the requirements are to join a BG and what you can then do when part of it.

Cheers,

Steve

andy63 wrote:
Ok Nik thats clear but it as been said that RBS as stated that a general can move anywere within a BG when he as joined it.

If we followed every "it has been said that the author said" comment we may as well just freeform - I'll go on whats in the rules

dave_r wrote:I think whilst making it mandatoryto finish in a legal position, I don't think the rules as they are prevent the jiggery pokery that I am describing.

In fact, I remember RBS stating that once a general has joined a BG you can measure from anywhere from that unit if he chooses to move away.

I could be wrong though. I don't have a strong opinion on this, but would like to know what is legal and what isn't

What you are remembering is an old version of the rules in which this did apply. (One of the disadvantages of being a playtester). It doesn't apply any more.

Also generals cannot move freely around BGs - they can move if they are forced to move or if they make a move to do so, that is all. Once again, you are remembering an earlier version of the rules.

As Richard has said we went through a number of variations for general varying from loose to rigorous and settled on a middle version where you have to connect them up in a legit position and they only move "for free" if forced to do so to make roon for something else that need to happen.

So in all cases go for what is in the rules rather than risking memory.

If you think its confusing having lots of altenatives from the past in your head as a tster try being and author - we have several we haven't even floated with any of you. Its a wonder we make any sense at all!!

Cheers

Si

If you think its confusing having lots of altenatives from the past in your head as a tster try being and author - we have several we haven't even floated with any of you. Its a wonder we make any sense at all!!

When did anybody said you did make any sense

I would like that statement backed up by evidence, thank you very much

Thanks for the clarification of the General's movement.

If I may add one question with regard to placement of Commanders (more a request for confirmation):

If the commander is fighting in the front rank and has therefore displaces a base which is behind him, can that base be contacted by enemy?

I think not as it is really where the placeholder commander base would be and that base of course is always moved to pass enemy/friends/terrain etc. However, the rules say nothing about bases in the rear because of commander in the front...

Steve

stevoid wrote:If I may add one question with regard to placement of Commanders (more a request for confirmation):

If the commander is fighting in the front rank and has therefore displaces a base which is behind him, can that base be contacted by enemy?

I think not as it is really where the placeholder commander base would be and that base of course is always moved to pass enemy/friends/terrain etc. However, the rules say nothing about bases in the rear because of commander in the front...

Steve

Steve, you might want to look at Terry's response to my very same question (in a specific context)

viewtopic.php?t=5036

Rgds,
Peter

Thanks Peter, it is a good worked question/answer but not quite specific enough for my question which I'll reword as:

Can a charge contact a BG if the only base that it can reach with its normal move is a base that has been displaced by a commander?

Steve

No is the answer, but we may need to FAQ that one just to be totally clear. The generals position is merely a marker and not physical space. If he gets in the way you can move him by the minimum to get away from this. So in this example put him in front of some others if that solves the problem.

... and if there were no such place to go temporarily remove him and note where he is and what he's doing (I have never needed to do this yet in 50 games).

Si