Slitherine

Apologies if this has been covered before...

Having read through the rules I am wondering how Indian B can actually stop Macedonian Pk from hitting and destroying them ? The odds suggest the archery will have little success in stopping them, and the impact & hand to hand looks brutal for the Indians.

Having read through the rules at work yesterday ( heck beats invoicing ! ) they seem a lot easier to read than the dbm series, and I am looking forward to my first game with them next week.

I have managed to lose to Classical Indians with Swiss......

Pike are actually rather vulnerable to missile fire but if well supported should get in and butcher the bow.

Looking at the historical accounts the Indians don't seem to have been confident in the ability of their archers to stand up to pike so ended up using elephants to face off the Macedonians IIRC.

With equal frontages, shooting at a BG of 8 pikes with 4 bows (3 dice), assuming that the Indians move to within 4, but outside of 3 MUs - and so get 3 shots, and also assuming that the pikes have a general in range, with 3 shots you should DISR the pikes about 45% of the time, FRG them 10%, and even have a 1% chance of breaking them before they hit. Leaving the pikes a 44% chance of getting in unscathed.

If you can increase the number of dice shooting by even one (you will have a longer line after all), then the chances of the pikes getting in while steady are much decreased.

Of course the ones that do get in unscathed will turn you over - but as Hammy says, they didn't expect their archers to stand up to pikes anyway.

I a direct walk in as Terry suggests the pikes will find it difficult and get worried but will break the bows easily in the end. Even DISR they will beat them in Melee being + pk and Prot vs + for Sw. If the pikes get in STDY then its 3s vs 5s and ouch.

The reports from hydapses support this mechnism outputs in that:

1. Hydaspes is the one battle where Alexander actually used the phalanx as the main attck force - as against a pinning force which he then worked around. This suggests he felt that his pikes would carry the day and were the best tool for the job.

2. He won the battle this way but the phalanx reportedly had the hardest time of it they had faced - and a tough time against the elephnats IIRC.

Now if you want to kill of pikes with Indian bowmen you need to get 2 BGs shooting at an isolate pike block ... or gang up 4 elephants on one isolated pike block ... or get them in the flank with some troops or who knows what else....

Si

terrys wrote:With equal frontages, shooting at a BG of 8 pikes with 4 bows (3 dice), assuming that the Indians move to within 4, but outside of 3 MUs - and so get 3 shots, and also assuming that the pikes have a general in range, with 3 shots you should DISR the pikes about 45% of the time, FRG them 10%, and even have a 1% chance of breaking them before they hit. Leaving the pikes a 44% chance of getting in unscathed.

If the pikes are screened by LF then it could be worse for the bows. The LF move behind the pikes on the turn the pikes get within 3 MU of the bowmen (otherwise the pikes can't charge without failing a CT and bursting through the LF). That would give the bows only 2 shots at the pikes before the pikes impact.

Agrred. In fact when I played this match up the Agranins DIRSed a bow BG going down in the process. But as they LF then withdrew behind the pike it was a net disaster for the Bw.

Round 1

Pikes 6 dice on 3s
Bowen 4 dice on 5s

Aaargh!

Si

If the pikes are screened by LF then it could be worse for the bows. The LF move behind the pikes on the turn the pikes get within 3 MU of the bowmen (otherwise the pikes can't charge without failing a CT and bursting through the LF). That would give the bows only 2 shots at the pikes before the pikes impact.

Well I never said that the pikes wouldn't do something to counter the bowfire.
Using the LF as protection does of course add another 4 or 5 points per frontage - so there will be additional weeknesses elsewhere..... And you still get 2 shots at the pikes before they close.

There are additional tactics that the Indians can use - but I haven't mentioned those either.

You mean serve them the dodgy curry before the battle !

Yeah he does that to me a lot my mate Terry !!

Si

Which tactic to use against BG of 12 pikes ?

frederic wrote:Which tactic to use against BG of 12 pikes ?

I think 12 pikes seem less manuveable. Don't let them come straight at you. Work onto their flanks.

Pike frontaly should be the top rated troop type, work them flanks at four deep they have to have big gaps.

Mark