Slitherine

Field training has been changed a few times and I originally praised the changes that nerfed it. It really was overpowered and needed a change, but now I never use it ... I just rely on killing aliens and using the city buildings that grant ranks to newly produced units instead. Also, I think that the nerfing of Field Training hurt Imperium's early game advantage (which was one of my favorite parts about that faction).

StephiRok wrote:* Doubled maximum rank from 10 to 20.

I like this change and I think it opens up some better, alternative field training ideas. Just off the top of my head: one idea could be a progressive damage scale.

-From rank 1 to 2: 10% damage
-From rank 2 to 3: 20% damage
-From rank 3 to 4: 30% damage
-From rank 4 to 5: 40% damage
-From rank 5 to 6: 50% damage
-From rank 6 to 7: 60% damage
-From rank 7 to 8: 70% damage
-From rank 8 to 9: 80% damage
-From rank 9 to 10: 90% damage
-From rank 10 to 11: cannot use field training
-From rank 11 to 12: cannot use field training
-From rank 12 to ... 20: cannot use field training

This increases the cap to 10, but it becomes more difficult to do it (for example: it's easier to go kill a few aliens to go from rank 9 to rank 10 rather than lose 90% health through this operation). But Field Training won't be useless in the early game because you can grant a few ranks to your "green" troops who desperately need it against the aliens (Field Training is an early-game feature anyways). Lastly, it returns some strength to Imperium. It used to be one of his strong points, not needing to research it AND starting out with 3 deploy-able.

I know some people will hate this idea, but I've been trying to think of a way to make Field Training relevant again. This new rank:20 system makes that possible.

One last note for the modders: There could be a multiplication factor implemented so that those who want to remove the damage altogether can just set the multiplier to zero.

An interesting idea indeed, and I agree, field training was overnerfed. I really liked my field training timing pushes from earlier beta days. Needs a better middle ground.

void wrote:An interesting idea indeed, and I agree, field training was overnerfed. I really liked my field training timing pushes from earlier beta days. Needs a better middle ground.

It was overnerfed, then eventually the patches gave the AI the ability to use Field Training. Now that they use it, any buffs will be used by the AI as well (granted: they may not be capable of using it as strategically as human players). But still, I think the mixture of 1) AI using FT and 2) increased max rank cap of 20 both offer a perfect opportunity to perfect Field Training.

Also, I was in the mid-late beta so what do you mean by "timing pushes"? Sounds interesting.

It's a term known mainly from realtime strategy games like Starcraft where you invest heavily into a single attack with maximum strength at a target time. For example, Terra Salvum has a strong timing around the 60-70 turns mark when other factions sacrificed power to fend off alien troops, while TS still has enough turns to finish a push/invasion before they get attacked by aliens themselves.

Field training was devised as an operation to make such pushes a bit more powerful: You take a risk by stopping to produce units at a certain point in time, but rather swap to field training production. Now, as soon as all your assault troops have gathered at the front, you pump them up with several trainings that finished during the march of your last troops. While no more reinforcements will arrive in the near future, your gathered offensive force is very powerful. Before you even start pumping units though you have to identify with what type of units, as well as weapons and armor you want to attack. This is based on the research tree layout, enemy composition, and terrain near your attack target. During the investment phase you want to build as few units as possible but rather tech through the tree very fast.

Very nice.

I've implemented all those concepts and strategies in my games just without knowing any technical term for them.

Any FT system that inflicts a lot of damage will require that these strategic timing pushes utilize FT before embarking on the invasion journey (in order to heal in a city). This essentially weakens such attacks because it takes time to produce the FT and to heal which cannot be done during the journey and thus may decrease the number of producible units before leaving town. However, with the version I suggested, the first few ranks inflict small amounts of damage which can be healed (out of a city) in a couple of turns. So I'd say that it presents somewhat of a middle-ground. The strategic invasions can benefit from FT, but people can't ramp up to rank 20 or even 10 (very easily) during peace time. Not OP, but still relevant and useful.

An alternate system might use the same pattern, but change the numbers: I just threw down some numbers, but a better exponential function could be used.
-From rank 1 to 2: 0% damage
-From rank 2 to 3: 0% damage
-From rank 3 to 4: 5% damage
-From rank 4 to 5: 15% damage
-From rank 5 to 6: 30% damage
-From rank 6 to 7: 50% damage
-From rank 7 to 8: 75% damage
-From rank 8 to 9: 95% damage
-From rank 9 to 10: 95% damage
-From rank 10 to 11: cannot use field training
-From rank 11 to 12: cannot use field training
-From rank 12 to ... 20: cannot use field training

EDIT: it might need a steeper climb so that 5-10 are more health costly. I don't know. It's something that would need testing, feedback, and balancing.

I don't think it's a good idea, for it removes the renewed (with max rank to 20) usefulleness of Field Training:
Field training should be usefull up to 20 (but with a disminished return), as barracks training to 8 makes the Field training almost useless if only usefull up to 10.

ERISS wrote:it removes the renewed (with max rank to 20) usefulleness of Field Training

Well, FT is already capped at 5. So you could argue that this idea does indeed renew the usefulness of FT.

ERISS wrote:Field training should be usefull up to 20 (but with a disminished return)

I'm not going to say that you're wrong. I'm going to say that this should be moddable.

I'll preface this paragraph by reminding everyone that FT automatically does not deploy on targeted units that cannot take the damage without dying. Now, Consider this: If each rank interval has an increased % damage (by 10% each time in my first example), the FT cap is (by basic math) rank 10. So, in theory, the interval from rank 10 to rank 11 would be 100% damage, the subsequent interval would be 110% damage, then 120%, then 130%, .... ect ect... eventually the last interval would be 190% damage. So anyone would be able to mod the "multiplier" that I mentioned in the first post. If you mod it to 0.5, then the new FT cap would be rank 20 because the last interval would be less than 100% damage. (super easy math, super easy mod). If you want to cap FT to 3 ranks, just increase the multiplier so that the interval from 3 to 4 does more than 100% damage. For those who hate the damage altogether, they can set the multiplier to 0.

Definitely an interesting idea.

Perhaps there should be a "forced cap" value along with a "multiplier" value. This way, someone can mod out the damage to zero if they want but also implement a forced FT cap (say, rank:15 for example). Just to add some mod flexibility to those who love modding.

Random strategy idea : capture a Queen, and use it's heal ability to still make this timing push.