Slitherine

Re page 23 Battle group Formation

Exception: a battle group of battle wagons never counts as column except when moving along a road.

What is the exception referring to?

1) You can never form a column of BG of battle wagons OFF-road? So flank protection is limited to one long base side only.

2) Or it refers only to the "kinking" at point where such BG wheels?
Thus in column OFF-road
-can wheel but NOT by kinking?
-can turn?
-can expand from column?
-can contract into column?
-as written in the General Movement Rules?

I suspect it's a throwback to when you used to get an extra inch when moving as a column through terrain. Since this is no longer applicable, it no longer matters.

Being a kinked column prevents you from charging or intercepting - which I believe Battle Wagons can't do anyway, so it appears to be a somewhat superflous statement.

dave_r wrote:......moving as a column through terrain. Since this is no longer applicable, it no longer matters.

Thanks for reply. So a BG of 2 BWg must be long side by long side, each BWg having 1 long base side that cannot shot.
Only one deep base is a poor flank protection

LaurenceP wrote:

dave_r wrote:......moving as a column through terrain. Since this is no longer applicable, it no longer matters.

Thanks for reply. So a BG of 2 BWg must be long side by long side, each BWg having 1 long base side that cannot shot.
Only one deep base is a poor flank protection

No - you can still be in any formation you want. I believe what the rule was _trying_ to say is that if you were one wide and four deep (i.e. 40mm x 320mm) then you don't gain any additional movement for being a column.

IMO you can be in any formation you want, but you don't count any of the bonuses for being in a column.

dave_r wrote:

LaurenceP wrote:

dave_r wrote:......moving as a column through terrain. Since this is no longer applicable, it no longer matters.

Thanks for reply. So a BG of 2 BWg must be long side by long side, each BWg having 1 long base side that cannot shot.
Only one deep base is a poor flank protection

No - you can still be in any formation you want. I believe what the rule was _trying_ to say is that if you were one wide and four deep (i.e. 40mm x 320mm) then you don't gain any additional movement for being a column.

IMO you can be in any formation you want, but you don't count any of the bonuses for being in a column.

Does one take the negative on HPB against shooting if in column. Ie only count first three ranks?

Gino
Smac

kal5056 wrote:Does one take the negative on HPB against shooting if in column. Ie only count first three ranks?

Gino
Smac

Yes.

It refers to the requirement for BGs in a single file to kink when wheeling. Notice the other exceptions. Battle groups of Cav, Cat, HF, originally consisting of two bases, or 4 in the case of pike. The other restrictions on columns are related to being kinked, but battle wagons can't do any of those anyway. To claim the road bonus you have to kink to stay on the road.
I guess this means that a battle group of four BW in a single file can wheel and whiplash a long way. If they make their CMT.

I guess this means that a battle group of four BW in a single file can wheel and whiplash a long way. If they make their CMT.

That's how I read it. If you had to kink them in a wheel, they'd be almost useless--like artillery but without the range. At least this way they have a chance to move up and get into position instead of always being a static defense.

bbotus wrote:

I guess this means that a battle group of four BW in a single file can wheel and whiplash a long way. If they make their CMT.

That's how I read it. If you had to kink them in a wheel, they'd be almost useless--like artillery but without the range. At least this way they have a chance to move up and get into position instead of always being a static defense.

Heaven forbid they should always act in the historic function of a static defence...

See, Dave? We don't always disagree.
But there was that one time where they supposedly led the charge that allowed them to break out of the encirclement...
In the dead of night...
And many military theorists of the period expected great things of them.

dave_r wrote:

bbotus wrote:

I guess this means that a battle group of four BW in a single file can wheel and whiplash a long way. If they make their CMT.

That's how I read it. If you had to kink them in a wheel, they'd be almost useless--like artillery but without the range. At least this way they have a chance to move up and get into position instead of always being a static defense.

Heaven forbid they should always act in the historic function of a static defence...

You mean that they were pre-positioned before the battle like we can't do in this game?

bbotus wrote:

dave_r wrote:Heaven forbid they should always act in the historic function of a static defence...

You mean that they were pre-positioned before the battle like we can't do in this game?

Yes, like you can't deploy them how you want. Well, apart from that you can...

There was that last great battle between the Orphans and the Ultraquists, where they stared at each other from their respective wagon lagers until one side got bored and charged out of theirs to attack the other. Got slaughtered like pigs.
I don't recall a single case of a wagon lager being established once the battle was joined. The few recorded attempts ended in disaster.