Slitherine

Hi all

Can a commander with a pursuing BG in JAP CMT for the BG to break off and then move to another BG to rally them as the sequence seems to show.

I've had it done a couple of times now and haven't been able to prove that it cannot be done.

Rob

Robert241167 wrote:Hi all

Can a commander with a pursuing BG in JAP CMT for the BG to break off and then move to another BG to rally them as the sequence seems to show.

I've had it done a couple of times now and haven't been able to prove that it cannot be done.

Rob

Then you've cheated. Page 105 "Once declared as fighting in the front rank, the commander cannot leave the front rank of that battle group until it is no longer in close combat and no longer in contact with enemy routers".

However, if the unit you pursued "got away" so to speak, then the commander can move in the JAP.

You said "with a pursuing BG". The answer to that specific question is: 'Yes, a commander with a BG may leave it at any time. The only exception is that a cmdr with a BG at the moment it breaks must rout with it once (page 107, V2). And, the cmdr doesn't need a CMT even though the BG is still in contact with pursuers.

However, if the cmdr was declared to be fighting in the front rank, it is a different story. Page 105: 'Once declared as fighting in the front rank, the cmdr cannot leave the front rank of that BG until it is no longer in close combat and no longer in contact with enemy routers.' So if you maintain contact in the initial rout, then in the JAP you can roll a CMT to stop pursuit. Now last week, I would have said that since you stopped pursuit, the cmdr could move to another BG to bolster them.

Looking at other threads in this forum, I guess I'm wrong. Literally, the text says the cmdr can't leave until no longer in "CONTACT". Technically, they are still touching so I guess you'd have to wait until the routing BG moves away in the JAP. Since that happens after 'Move CMDRS' , the cmdr wouldn't get to move that phase.

bbotus wrote:You said "with a pursuing BG". The answer to that specific question is: 'Yes, a commander with a BG may leave it at any time. The only exception is that a cmdr with a BG at the moment it breaks must rout with it once (page 107, V2). And, the cmdr doesn't need a CMT even though the BG is still in contact with pursuers.

However, if the cmdr was declared to be fighting in the front rank, it is a different story. Page 105: 'Once declared as fighting in the front rank, the cmdr cannot leave the front rank of that BG until it is no longer in close combat and no longer in contact with enemy routers.' So if you maintain contact in the initial rout, then in the JAP you can roll a CMT to stop pursuit. Now last week, I would have said that since you stopped pursuit, the cmdr could move to another BG to bolster them.

Looking at other threads in this forum, I guess I'm wrong. Literally, the text says the cmdr can't leave until no longer in "CONTACT". Technically, they are still touching so I guess you'd have to wait until the routing BG moves away in the JAP. Since that happens after 'Move CMDRS' , the cmdr wouldn't get to move that phase.

Nice catch.

So because the rules require you to place the commander's element literally in the front rank (if he is declared to be fighting), ipso facto he will still be in contact with the routing opponent BG if his BG caught the router during pursuit.

I guess that may lead to people placing commanders in the front rank but perhaps discplacing the end most friendly bases in the hope that enemy base loses may shrink the router's width resulting in the commander's base not ending in contact after the pursuit move.

zoltan wrote:

bbotus wrote:You said "with a pursuing BG". The answer to that specific question is: 'Yes, a commander with a BG may leave it at any time. The only exception is that a cmdr with a BG at the moment it breaks must rout with it once (page 107, V2). And, the cmdr doesn't need a CMT even though the BG is still in contact with pursuers.

However, if the cmdr was declared to be fighting in the front rank, it is a different story. Page 105: 'Once declared as fighting in the front rank, the cmdr cannot leave the front rank of that BG until it is no longer in close combat and no longer in contact with enemy routers.' So if you maintain contact in the initial rout, then in the JAP you can roll a CMT to stop pursuit. Now last week, I would have said that since you stopped pursuit, the cmdr could move to another BG to bolster them.

Looking at other threads in this forum, I guess I'm wrong. Literally, the text says the cmdr can't leave until no longer in "CONTACT". Technically, they are still touching so I guess you'd have to wait until the routing BG moves away in the JAP. Since that happens after 'Move CMDRS' , the cmdr wouldn't get to move that phase.

Nice catch.

So because the rules require you to place the commander's element literally in the front rank (if he is declared to be fighting), ipso facto he will still be in contact with the routing opponent BG if his BG caught the router during pursuit.

I guess that may lead to people placing commanders in the front rank but perhaps discplacing the end most friendly bases in the hope that enemy base loses may shrink the router's width resulting in the commander's base not ending in contact after the pursuit move.

It's not just the commander being in contact, but also the unit he is leading in combat being in contact with routers.

Read my post carefully ladyboy Ruddock.

It was done to me so I was not cheating. LOL

Rob

Robert241167 wrote:Read my post carefully ladyboy Ruddock.

It was done to me so I was not cheating. LOL

Rob

Then you really need to read the rules then!

If you have used the commander's plus for the BG to cease pursuit I believe he must stay with the BG to the end of the JAP similalry to using the commander's modifier for a CMT during the movement phase.

Chris

batesmotel wrote:If you have used the commander's plus for the BG to cease pursuit I believe he must stay with the BG to the end of the JAP similalry to using the commander's modifier for a CMT during the movement phase.

Chris

You are soo correct. Page 44 says that for a cmdr to influence a CMT, he must start with the BG/BL and stay with the same 'BG' for the rest of the phase.

I can't find it, but I believe you do not have the option to apply or not apply the Cmdr modifier for a CMT. Anyone know?

I can't find it, but I believe you do not have the option to apply or not apply the Cmdr modifier for a CMT. Anyone know?

I'm not sure it's specified but if you don't wish to add the Commander's CMT modifier just move him away before rolling for the CMT. (Assuming he's not fighting in the front rank)

petedalby wrote:

I can't find it, but I believe you do not have the option to apply or not apply the Cmdr modifier for a CMT. Anyone know?

I'm not sure it's specified but if you don't wish to add the Commander's CMT modifier just move him away before rolling for the CMT. (Assuming he's not fighting in the front rank)

He gives a plus if in range, so no choice

Yes Phil but only one plus rather than two.

Rob

He gives a plus if in range, so no choice

That is what I'm thinking. There is no choice in the matter when taking a CMT. But I can't find it in the rules. Anyone help?

That is what I'm thinking. There is no choice in the matter when taking a CMT. But I can't find it in the rules. Anyone help?

Page 43 - "Roll 2 dice, apply quality re-rolls and add the scores. Apply the following modifiers." So no choice.

If you can move him away (not fighting in front rank) then it surely doesn't matter if his + counts or not. If you want them to continue pursuing, don't try a CMT to stop them?

petedalby wrote:

That is what I'm thinking. There is no choice in the matter when taking a CMT. But I can't find it in the rules. Anyone help?

Page 43 - "Roll 2 dice, apply quality re-rolls and add the scores. Apply the following modifiers." So no choice.

Not that it particularly matters but quality rerolls for superior and elite are optional, poor are compulsory. Granted it is rare that you want to not reroll with the good guys (though i have done it)

quality rerolls for superior and elite are optional, poor are compulsory. Granted it is rare that you want to not reroll with the good guys (though i have done it)

I read it the same. It's the same in FoGR and I asked RBS to clarify it. His view was that it was optional as written but 'questionable behaviour' not to re-roll.

But clearly there are some situations where you might wish to tempt fate by dropping a level - by foot to prevent a break-off by mounted for example.

petedalby wrote:But clearly there are some situations where you might wish to tempt fate by dropping a level - by foot to prevent a break-off by mounted for example.

Bolstering is optional so why dice at all if you want the poor LH to get a kicking because you now only have 50% more dice at better POA

I think they are optional because you may pass without the re-roll so making it compulsory is silly (not that playing toy soldiers isn't silly anyway)

petedalby wrote:

quality rerolls for superior and elite are optional, poor are compulsory. Granted it is rare that you want to not reroll with the good guys (though i have done it)

I read it the same. It's the same in FoGR and I asked RBS to clarify it. His view was that it was optional as written but 'questionable behaviour' not to re-roll.

Then he's perhaps forgotten why they wrote "must" for poor and "may" for superior/elite.