Slitherine

I recently discovered that during the deployment phase I can buy as many units as I like, thus building a core that is larger than what is playable in the scenario.

1. Is this intentional design?

2. Is it intended to allow the player to build a 'flexible' core, using more infantry in one scenario and more tanks in another, for example?

3. Is it intended to allow the player to build prestige evenly within the core? For example, rotating an experienced unit out of the line for a few scenarios, and thus allowing a brand new unit to build experience? This would be especially useful given the prestige caps in the grand campaign I think.

4. Does anyone else use these advantages to improve their management of their core units throughout the campaign? It is a totally new idea to me that massively changes how I build up a core army on a campaign.


Keldorkatarn: I took the plunge and bought the Grand Campaign Mega pack. It's lots of fun and I am pursuing the decisive victories as much as possible!


Really intetrested to hear everyone's feedback. Cheers.

Ah! Just spotted the relevant thread in FAQs! Still interested to hear any more views on it anyway

Re #1 of course it is intentional, as you may already seen in those FAQs.

As you write under #3 - I'm using it often to train green troops, and rotate already experienced troops out for a while. This means that you don't have to use brand-new, totally inexperienced units very late in a campain (when the core slots max out usually), but have some experienced troops in the pool already.

And of course, you may not need a certain unit in every battle, but still may prefer to have it in your core (example: bridge engs). Or you might deploy more inf instead of tanks in maps with lotsa close defense terrain - it really allows a lot more flexibility.

You can always use a cheat code and run your core deployment number higher, I normally run at +4 in my games. Ship killing bombers are a unit type I normally have in there but dont run in every battle. But when you do, nice to have them with some exp already.

If you're playing the GC be aware that the number of **deployable** units increases slowly until peaking in the Kursk scenarios then drops substantially until the Berlin scenarios in 1945.

You'll probably want ~50 regular units (ie excluding SE) before you get to Kursk. Much more than 50 and a lot of your units will be sitting out much of 1944/45 - much less than 50 and you'll be filling your ranks at Kursk and Berlin with green recruits.

With 1.21 this becomes a more difficult issue; I like training up lots of units with experience before I really need them. The experience caps facilitate that. But once you hit '44, the soft cap on prestige just kills you if you have varied units.

I am beginning to feel 1.21 and the GCE just don't play well together. I have yet to play '45 but I think you are going to be crushed in Berlin w/o the prestige bank it takes to win that scenario, and Redux.

Kamerer wrote:With 1.21 this becomes a more difficult issue; I like training up lots of units with experience before I really need them. The experience caps facilitate that. But once you hit '44, the soft cap on prestige just kills you if you have varied units.

From what I remember Rudankort said that is not true. The prestige cap is calculated only for the units you have deployed. Your reserve can be as big as you like.

PanzerTax wrote:1. Is this intentional design?

I think so. This is especially necessary during the GC's, when you earn extra units (bonus/capturable), otherwise you couldn't add them to the core. And some scenarios in the GC's don't allow air units to be deployed. As I usually have a big airforce, if my core limit was also the deployment limit, I'd be in trouble.

2. Is it intended to allow the player to build a 'flexible' core, using more infantry in one scenario and more tanks in another, for example?

I certainly use it that way. As mentioned above, sometimes there is a need for a particular unit (the best example is the bridge engineer). Other good examples are anti-ship bombers, I usually have some extra AAA, recon units and infantry in reserve. It depends on the map, on maps with lots of bad weather I deploy less aircraft, on maps with lots of close terrain I deploy more infantry.

3. Is it intended to allow the player to build prestige evenly within the core? For example, rotating an experienced unit out of the line for a few scenarios, and thus allowing a brand new unit to build experience? This would be especially useful given the prestige caps in the grand campaign I think.

I rotate units a lot during the early years, as you quickly hit the prestige cap. I set aside some of these units when there is no cheap upgrade available, and wait until something worthwile becomes available. For example, a lot of Pz38(t) or captured tanks get turned into Tigers.

4. Does anyone else use these advantages to improve their management of their core units throughout the campaign? It is a totally new idea to me that massively changes how I build up a core army on a campaign.

I have done this from the start, so I don't know how you managed so far? One of the imost important things is rotating units which have hit the experience cap for that GC, or are close to it and have gained a hero. You can than rotate a fresh unit and have it gain experience. If a unit gains a hero I don't like, I often rotate it out and hope a fresher unit will gain a better one. So I might end up with two 88mm FlaK, one with three stars and a +1 defense, and a newer one with +1 range, which has become the replacement. The old one might still be usefull when upgrading to a mobile FlaK, as these units are very slow to gain experience.

I usually have some idea of a 'roster' that I want to fill. I usually buy a few extra specialized units, such as Pioniere, and keep buying new fighters when they hit the exp cap, up to the point where I have more than I need or the number of deployment slots starts shrinking again. I usually don't have to buy any extra tanks after the first GC or two, because of the many capturable ones.

If I have a full roster of units which are all capped in experience, I deploy the unit that is closest to getting a new hero. So, for example I have maxed out 4 paratroopers, three with heroes, one doesn't have one, and I want to deploy two. I will deploy the one without a hero, and see how many kills the others have to see if one is close to a hero treshold. If it's about equal I pick the one with the lowest number of kills, for reasons which don't make sense.

boredatwork wrote:If you're playing the GC be aware that the number of **deployable** units increases slowly until peaking in the Kursk scenarios then drops substantially until the Berlin scenarios in 1945.

I finished GC43 not too long ago, and the scenario with the highest core is "Kiev43" (end of Campaign 43) with 41 units allowed. Kursk has less than this at around ~37 units allowed. Korsun in '44 has 33 slots, not that I ever have that many. Every scenario my army get 3/4 of it mutilated, then replaced and then I win the scenario (prestige isn't a problem - I played '42 on Sergeant and ended the campaign with 110k prestige. In Korsun I currently have ~55k.

- BNC

Thanks all!

I think this finally solves the perennial Bridge Engineer problem then! Those guys can be kept for when I need them, along with the other specialists like the paratroops. I learned through Panzer General and its progeny that I had to be ruthless with my core and keep it exclusively for the units that I can get the maximum use out of and cannot do without. I am only just beginning the Grand Campaign, so I'm glad I've understood this new dynamic now.

Bridge Engineers, paratroopers, and particularly choosing major elements like the air force in a way that suits the scenario will make a big difference to me. I can now see that rotating the experienced and green units through combat will be essential too. I am going to start that process now so that I can be 'prepared for the wurst' when I hit the peak of Eastern front brutality later on.

My usual plan for a core does indeed begin with a roster detailing the composition of panzer divisions, so I have some sleepless nights ahead deciding how I will expand such a detailed composition! I'll try not to make it too big a roster or I'll confuse myself.

Thanks for those detailed figures on the size of the core - that information is pretty vital for a player's plan I think!

Thanks again.

BiteNibbleChomp wrote:

boredatwork wrote:If you're playing the GC be aware that the number of **deployable** units increases slowly until peaking in the Kursk scenarios then drops substantially until the Berlin scenarios in 1945.

I finished GC43 not too long ago, and the scenario with the highest core is "Kiev43" (end of Campaign 43) with 41 units allowed. Kursk has less than this at around ~37 units allowed.

Prohkorovka (end of Kursk) has 45 core units (+ potentially 6 SE units).