Slitherine

Is anyone using FOGR for fantasy? I think that it will provide for a more “sinister” background, and for a better balance between the different races.

That is a very interesting idea! I think it would work best when you have a universe that has high powered magic. In another thread, I mentioned that DnD can potentially have BGs of longbows. However, with FoGR, we can field BGs of magic users: fireballs and lightning bolts are classified as muskets. Sith lords with electicity shooting from their hands are classified as arquebus.

Also, fantasy monsters, like manticores, can be classified as determined horse with pistols for impact and melee.

Likewise, it would also simplify the debate about Peter Jackson's version of elves.

Sheesh! The only thing that FoG R does not do well is how battlegroups line up and march in the ancient world. You could also complain that some archers are better than others, IOW, longbow versus bow.

Rekila wrote:Is anyone using FOGR for fantasy? I think that it will provide for a more “sinister” background, and for a better balance between the different races.

I've used it and works pretty well IMO. I've yet to adapt magic / special powers into it but then I think this shouldn't appear often and then when it does should be expensive.

Cheers

Richard

Thanks’. About the Elves: They are probably one of principal races to be balanced, as in FOGAM longbow + superior make them too expensive and powerful. In FOGR with bow, even with superior or elite status they would be more playable and the army will gain a certain decadent aspect!
About magic, I agree that it should be rare and expensive, with “minor battle field magic” cover by firearms (musket bombs etc)

FoGR v FOG
I don't see why we/you cant morph the two together there are some great bits in FOGR that we take and use For FOG.SAS the ranges for artillery is one that we have taken on board and we are looking at Keils as well . .

Rekila wrote:They are probably one of principal races to be balanced, as in FOGAM longbow + superior make them too expensive and powerful. In FOGR with bow, even with superior or elite status they would be more playable and the army will gain a certain decadent aspect!

I think the difference is only 1 point ?but that's why they are expensive as they are powerful. the points would be the same in FoG and FoGR and thats because of the added long bow +1 if you think they are too expensive, just give them bow not Longbow..
they will both cost the same in FoG and FoGR ?
Rekila
Can you help me out I don't under stand how playing elfs in FOGR differs from playing them in FoG

Happy gaming DK

So there are some PoA differences. I cannot recall what they are, but I can <b>assume<\b> that heavily armoured knights are hit on 4s with longbows. Meanwhile in FoGR, fully armoured gendarmes are hit on 5s. There are others I'm sure.

I'd look it up, but I have a back injury and a bit out of action...

Rekila wrote:Thanks’. About the Elves: They are probably one of principal races to be balanced, as in FOGAM longbow + superior make them too expensive and powerful. In FOGR with bow, even with superior or elite status they would be more playable and the army will gain a certain decadent aspect!
About magic, I agree that it should be rare and expensive, with “minor battle field magic” cover by firearms (musket bombs etc)

Bow are exceptionally powerful in FoG:R - more than you think. Probably too powerful.

Hi eldiablito

eldiablito wrote:So there are some PoA differences. I cannot recall what they are, but I can <b>assume<\b> that heavily armoured knights are hit on 4s with longbows. Meanwhile in FoGR, fully armoured gendarmes are hit on 5s. There are others I'm sure.

you are spot on about that but you must realise that you play 1 point more to to hit on 4's as you have Longbow..if not then they would have normal bow and hit on 5's ,and no that's all they get just easier to kill knights .

Yes they are expensive but then again have a look at your romans ! med/late rep!

it comes down to quality or quantity and yes you will not get a lot of troops if they are superior and have longbow and swordsmen and prot/armoured ! against mr orc who is impact foot swordsman only 7pts !


Its horse for courses I think the last game we play we only fielded 3 b.g of elfs as they cost the earth but hay they one the day for the humans !

happy gaming DK

davekhan wrote: Can you help me out I don't under stand how playing elfs in FOGR differs from playing them in FoG

Well I have not tried them yet, (still rebasing!) So is only a personal impression. But we played some late medieval games using FOGR and there are some differences with FOGAM . A 1000pts WOR type army in FOGAM cost only 700pts in FOGR. Only armies based around Gendarmes or Keils cost more or less the same. Whereas an army based around longbow and offensive spearmen is powerful in FOGAM, in FOGR bow + spearmen are not so strong. Even if I agree that that doesn’t mean that they will be bad, they will have to face better armies. Dwarfs or Imperial armies with lot of shot and armies with good mounted troops will do better IMO.
PD In any case I have now to speed my rebasing

Right
I see where you are coming from if you are using wg . figs as they are more on the lines of FogR with all them boom sticks and heavy plate troops .

Good luck with the basing must be a night mare rebasing 25mm ! glad I play in 15mm my figs are more dark ages so will stick with Fog but add a few bits in like artillery ranges for now
happy gaming Dk..

ravenflight wrote:

Rekila wrote:Thanks’. About the Elves: They are probably one of principal races to be balanced, as in FOGAM longbow + superior make them too expensive and powerful. In FOGR with bow, even with superior or elite status they would be more playable and the army will gain a certain decadent aspect!
About magic, I agree that it should be rare and expensive, with “minor battle field magic” cover by firearms (musket bombs etc)

Bow are exceptionally powerful in FoG:R - more than you think. Probably too powerful.

They are not very good if faced by firearms. But maybe that's not so likely in a fantasy setting.

pyruse wrote:

ravenflight wrote:

Rekila wrote:Thanks’. About the Elves: They are probably one of principal races to be balanced, as in FOGAM longbow + superior make them too expensive and powerful. In FOGR with bow, even with superior or elite status they would be more playable and the army will gain a certain decadent aspect!
About magic, I agree that it should be rare and expensive, with “minor battle field magic” cover by firearms (musket bombs etc)

Bow are exceptionally powerful in FoG:R - more than you think. Probably too powerful.

They are not very good if faced by firearms. But maybe that's not so likely in a fantasy setting.

Well, we'd be upsetting the balance with a lot of things using FoG:R for Fantasy. For instance P&S I imagine would be not really in existance, but in FoG:R a BG of bow will blow away a BG of P&S despite the advantages of no +2 to death rolls for the shot.

Speaking purely from a FoG:R perspective, generally Armoured Bow will get a long range shot against an unarmoured P&S opponent, so the P&S are looking for 2 dice going for 5's and the bow are 3 dice going for 4's (assuming equal frontage). The bow will advance 2" to be in close range with 8 dice going for 4's vs the shot again going 2 dice going for 5's. at this stage, statistically the P&S have tested twice both death and cohesion with a 1/3 chance of a base loss. The Bow are also at 1/3 chance of a base loss, but next to no chance of a cohesion test.

If the P&S advance to 3" things are a little more even, but the P&S might be disrupted by then (and across a frontage of 4 BG's, I'd suggest that 1-2 WOULD be disrupted, meaning they will be fragged when the bow charge and a hole will appear in their line.

Hi Ravenflight

dont see how i could get a P&S unit in my Fantasy army its Dark ages ? but your armoured bow v Unarmoured P&S good point .
BUT i think you might have over looked a few things

Having a B.G of 6 base Armoured bow av.. 6@6pts = 36pts B.G V 4 bases of unarmoured musket 4@6pts =24 then 2 bases of unarmoured pike 5@2=10 total 34pts ..
so the P&S is cheaper ..

ravenflight wrote:The bow will advance 2" to be in close range with 8 dice going for 4's vs the shot again going 2 dice going for 5's. at this stage, statistically the P&S have tested twice both death and cohesion with a 1/3 chance of a base loss. The Bow are also at 1/3 chance of a base loss, but next to no chance of a cohesion test.

Last time i looked you will roll 6 dice if you have 6 bases of bow at short range .You have to be to have 3 hit out of 6 dice for them to have a chance of a death roll and you need 2 hits on a 6 base B.G to test .so at long range the bow could have to take a cohesion test ..as well as the P&S unit
AND
At long range the bow would have to get 3 hits which is 100% (1 per 2 bases)off its dice. for a death roll, but you only need 1 hit with the P&S B.G for a death roll .I Know which one i would put my money on to lose a base 1st ..
..
At close range 3 m.u.i would have my money on the P&S B.G 4 dice rolling 4,5,6 with no -on death rolls with bow 6dice hitting on 4,5,6 with - 2 death rolls YOU pay your money you take your chance ..

I dont think the bow would blow away the P&S! i think its a very close match up . Not much in it pts ways thats way the points work very well in these rules ...and a great set of rules think i will stick with FoG AM ..

Happy gaming DK.

davekhan wrote:Hi Ravenflight

dont see how i could get a P&S unit in my Fantasy army its Dark ages ? but your armoured bow v Unarmoured P&S good point .
BUT i think you might have over looked a few things

Which is why I mentioned in my post 'Speaking purely from a FoG:R perspective'

davekhan wrote:Having a B.G of 6 base Armoured bow av.. 6@6pts = 36pts B.G V 4 bases of unarmoured musket 4@6pts =24 then 2 bases of unarmoured pike 5@2=10 total 34pts ..
so the P&S is cheaper ..

Now, it's you who has their maths wrong.

6 armoured average bow is 36, correct, however, a 4&2 P&S is 42 points. Musket in a P&S formation cost 8 points per base, not 6, and 7 points when not in a P&S formation... so I'm not sure where you got the 6 points from???

davekhan wrote:Last time i looked you will roll 6 dice if you have 6 bases of bow at short range .You have to be to have 3 hit out of 6 dice for them to have a chance of a death roll and you need 2 hits on a 6 base B.G to test .so at long range the bow could have to take a cohesion test ..as well as the P&S unit
AND
At long range the bow would have to get 3 hits which is 100% (1 per 2 bases)off its dice. for a death roll, but you only need 1 hit with the P&S B.G for a death roll .I Know which one i would put my money on to lose a base 1st ..

Yes, I made the error because my Japanese are in 8 base BG's so I went into memory mode.

davekhan wrote:At close range 3 m.u.i would have my money on the P&S B.G 4 dice rolling 4,5,6 with no -on death rolls with bow 6dice hitting on 4,5,6 with - 2 death rolls YOU pay your money you take your chance ..

So far I've blown away units left right and centre, and I haven't been particularly lucky.

Anyway - I still think that bow are quite powerful in FoG:R. The change from "R" to "fantasy" would bring about other dynamics that cannot be appraised easily from a forum, only through play test, but I think you'll be surprised just how tough a bow unit is in FoG:R - their only nemesis is mounted and even then it's not a guarantee.