Slitherine

Hey Fellas,

a mate of mine recently picked up a Mid-Republican Roman army and when we finally got a chance to have a game a few questions came up regarding the army lists and Triarii.

He built his list around 6 battlegroups of 6stand Hastati and Principes. According to the rules this meant he had to take 9 Triarii however this wouldn't give valid battlegroup formations being an odd number.

What happens in this situation? Does he have to take a number of stands of Hastati/Principes that is evenly divisible by 4, i.e. 32 stands or 40 stands giving 8 or 10 Triarii?

My Late Romans have nothing like this so I wasn't much help and the other guys at the club were just as confused.

Cheers for any help.

Martin

Yes that is correct.

As triarii must be in BGs of 2 or 4 bases, this means that the H&P must be in multiples of 8 (or 16 if you don't want the Triarii as a 2 pack).
Note also that if you are going to use either of the optional upgrade or downgrade, then the upgraded or downgraded "legions" also have to conform to the ratio.
Note also the ratio of Velites, and see the sticky on the subject.

This is a link to the sticky IanP refers to:

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=9032

The list is ridiculously restrictive because someone knows a lot about the historical make up of the army. If we knew less it would be a far better list. Wierd!

Thanks for the clarifications.

I did read the link and thought I was understanding it but then in the last section he started talking about having a 6:6:6:6/2:2:2 legion being ok. If I'm reading it right a lot seems to broadly hinge on what the player chooses to group together as a "Legion"?

So a player could have one "legion" as 6:6:6:6/2:2:2 and then a second "legion" 8:8/4 correct? Could they all be in one "legion" as 6:8:6:6:8:6/2:2:2:2:2 or do they have to be split more evenly than this?

Cheers for the help. Talking it out is helping to solidify what I suspected all along anyway. Now to try and explain this to a relative new player to FoG:AM.

Martin

Martin I think you've got it right, it hinges on what you call a legion. Within each 'legion' you have to have the correct ratios and permitted BG sizes.

When putting a list together, start with Triarii. They come in BGs of 2 or 4 bases. You need 4 bases of "hastati and principes" for each base of triarii. So you get 8 of those for each 2 base Triarii BG or 16 for each 4 base unit.

It quickly becomes clear that you end up taking your H+Ps in groups of eight bases as the triarii must be an even number and x 4 for H+P.

Plus you also need (if memory serves) 2 bases of velites for each Triarii base; so 4 velites per 2 base triarii BG or 8 velites per 4 base triarii units.

So, in terms of total bases in whatever you call a 'legion' (sorry there's a minimum in the list so first might be a non starter) options are:

4 T, 16 H+P, 8V
6T, 24 H+P, 12V
8T, 32 H+P, 16V
10T, 40H+P, 20V

If the H+P are painted up in 6s and he has 36 of them then the options are:

- go for line 2. 4x6 or 6x4 H+P, 3x2 (or one of 4 and one of 2) T, 3x4 (or 2x6, or an 8 and a 4).
- paint another 4 then you could have 6x6 H+P plus a 4 of them or 4x6 and 2x8 (and 10T and 20V in some combination). That's may be too many points though.

Of course, they could use 32 H+Ps in 8 BGs of 4 but that would mean the painting getting mixed up.

For reference, there's an army list on Tim Porter's website of using the last option. http://www.madaxeman.com/FoGAM/tiki-ind ... ican+Roman

In terms of use in the game, HF in 2s and 4s are flexible and give a big BG count in the army but a bit fragile. 6s and 8s are much more robust but make for a smaller army. In general people seem to take the H+P as superior and armoured, though that does make them expensive. On the other hand, an 8 of superior, armoured chaps with a general fighting with them can spoil most people's day!

grahambriggs wrote:So, in terms of total bases in whatever you call a 'legion' (sorry there's a minimum in the list so first might be a non starter) options are:

4 T, 16 H+P, 8V
6T, 24 H+P, 12V
8T, 32 H+P, 16V
10T, 40H+P, 20V

Cheers this is a great example of how to build the list legally, I'll pass this on. I might suggest he add 4 more bases of H+P and bring it up to 40 which should be easier to work with.

Thanks for the help fellas.

Martin

philqw78 wrote:The list is ridiculously restrictive because someone knows a lot about the historical make up of the army. If we knew less it would be a far better list. Wierd!

Actually, it's not even a legitimate historical restriction, since we know that with oversize legions (5000 or 6000 men instead of 4000) the number of Triarii did not increase, just the other classes.