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Supply system

Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 11:03 am
by jenner68
What do you think about another supply system which is orientated to the nearness of my units to a friendly depot or a friendly city? It can be complemental to the existing system with the nearness of enemy units. Depots can be created by engineers (it will take 2 or 3 turns to built it). Capturing an enemy depot destroys it an fullfill the capturing unit with supply.
By the way there is a new important function for strat bombers to decrease the maximum supply level that depends on the damage rate of cities and depots.

Re: Supply system

Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 1:07 pm
by rezaf
While I tend to agree that a supply system would make a lot of sense, I also feel it'd change the very nature of the game and thus is impossible to retroactively implement at this point - all campaigns, official or otherwise, would have to be revisited to take it into consideration.
MAYBE a rudimentary supply system is in the cards for a possible sequel, but as long as Slitherine/Matrix continue just milking the existing PzC franchise, you can forget about it.

That said, I hope we're at a point where at least a semi-sequel is starting to be considered, because the existing engine has been stretched rather far already. Remaking Pacific General, Fantasy General or Star General would require fundamental changes to the engine anyhow (still nothing as drastic as a complete rewrite), especially regarding the "metagame" - for example, PacGen had the improved carrier handling and Fantasy General had this really cool unit research component which allowed you a good level of control about which units you were going to have available to you. I'd love to see some of that, possibly even accessible to modders to make it usable in the WW2 context.

Alternatively, there's mechanics from Panzer General's own sequels - like Overrun (I know this won't be implemented because Rudankort doesn't like the idea) or the Force Pool mechanic (I think this was a very cool idea preventing cores consisting only of the best available units) that could be sensible improvements.

But most of the ideas above could be implemented without upsetting the existing campaigns, whilst a supply system is a fundamental change that of course old campaigns could just disable, but this would segregate the experience somewhat, which is why I hope this approach will be avoided. We'll see, I guess.

Hopefully, though, there's more to come than just rehashes and more of the same. I think the two expendalones were nice, but the DLC really got a bit old in the end, because there's only so much you can do within the systems as they are.
A russian expansion could get away with working the same, and even a pacific-centered expansion could - though improvements to naval combat would be sorely missed, but after that, I really hope some more ambitious steps are to be taken. Once again, we'll see.
_____
rezaf

Re: Supply system

Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 1:21 am
by Razz1
We need a new engine or a complete re-write of the AI code as the AI doesn't have a clue on how to use it.

Re: Supply system

Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 5:06 am
by jenner68
Is that an idea for PC 2?

Re: Supply system

Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 10:08 am
by BiteNibbleChomp
A simple add-on to a patch (1.22 or something):

Units need to trace a "line of supply" to a city or airfield to be able to collect more.
If 1-3 hex distance: 100% supply given
If 4-6: 85%
If 7-9: 70%
If 10-11: 55%
If 12+: 40%

Supply is forced around units the way other units are in terms of ZOC

- BNC

Re: Supply system

Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 10:16 am
by KeldorKatarn
Something like this is never simple. it would completely destroy the balancing in the game, not even talking about an AI that has no clue how to work with this system or the work involved in retesting 3 full campaigns + all DLC campaigns... for very little gameplay gain and zero additional income for the developers.

Re: Supply system

Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 3:07 pm
by Horst
I think adding a complex supply system as standard feature is a bit too much next to the otherwise nicely simple game mechanics.
The problem is usually the AI that can't handle such. Like recently I noticed how it sends its aircrafts without ammo against my planes. Giving units the wrong AI behavior can also cause some weirdness like planes hovering in one hex doing nothing if set to hold position. But enough of that.

What could still be expanded on the designer's side is for example following:
- you can specify prestige per turn based on number of flag hexes. Why always give a large sum in the end? In a defensive scenario, you can reward prestige by controlled flag hexes per turn until the end.
- you can manipulate units' ammo and fuel based on zones around controlled flag hexes. This is not perfect, but you could e.g. add a straigth bonus to ammo and fuel every turn to each allied unit in that controlled zone. This can become handy in a scenario with harsh weather condition when supply normally comes short.

Some possibilities are there with the scenario editor, but they are hardly used in most scenarios.

Re: Supply system

Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 5:43 pm
by KeldorKatarn
Considering we just had a patch that changed the ruleset for all campaigns and that was a major testing desaster since nobody checked the GC and there's still no 100% feedback on how balanced the old and new campaigns are with that ruleset after nearly half a year now, and after the fact that all this led so a lot of players being pissed off due to delays and bugs resulting from that...

I really think requesting major rule changes that affect all previously released campaigns AGAIN is kind of pushing it. The current supply system works fine and I'd rather they concentrate on future content and make sure that content is tested well and keep changed to the rules for a new game entirely this time. Again: Such a change would be a huge undertaking, would require weeks of programming, months of testing, would gain Slitherine no income whatsoever and very little gain and a potential bug and unbalanced-hell for the players.

Also there's players out there who don't follow the forums. Can you imagine how they feel when the launcher suddenly updates the game and the play by different rules AGAIN? Just make them optional eh? So the game then supports three different rule sets? Common guys... i think this is become a bit ridiculous and unrealistic at this point. Lets make this a discussion for a future product. For PzC this will just never happen.

Re: Supply system

Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:53 am
by danijocker90
I think thats no so easy like in the Commander Saga where you have a map with colours etc representing the ownership of the terrain and then the supply lines.