Slitherine

Played two games this weekend.

Both French vs Prussians 1813
Spring then Autumn 900 points

First I think it is so much cooler and more preferable to have historical opponents in time.

The Spring list I took the Guard. Young Guard Conscripts and 1 MG were the foot. Mandatory Guard Cavalry.
It was a blast. First I was out deployed and defending. Things looked bleak so naturally with the Guard...charge. And voila forture was reversed. Managed to stave in one flank the center attack stalled but drove back the prussians. Then naturally the OG Grenadiers a Cheval first crushed some Dragoons then hit a suscession of squares over a few turns passing through, then finding themselves in the enemy rear with only a wavering line regiment with its back to me within 2 MU. Had taken some punishment but with the LOC being cut the Prussians were bloodily repulsed.

Second battle I took the Autumn French Line Corps. 4 divisions each with a battery. I figure with not much cavalry and weak infantry I needed firepower.
Again not great deployment and I defended. And the Prussian cavarly divison had two cuirassier units. So I shoved everything I could in front of the cuirassier with guns and squares in front and no room for them to pass through behind. Then I had a series of lucky long range artillery shots combined with unlucky prussian failed recovery and one of the cuirass were wavering. Then then fire power of 2 batteries plus supporting legere and line, a wavering prussian large unit in the center gets charged and voila. The Prussians were on their back foot. Now the Prussians had their right wing coming into pummel my outmanned left that was trying to delay, but even there I got lucky when his shooting sent one of my units wavering back with a big outcome but then my other artillery and Wurttemberg Light infantry sent him disrupted and back witha big outcome. We stopped the game because it was getting late and while I think the Prussians could have reorganized and bashed me pretty hard in 3-4 more turns, the thought the better course of action was to pull back and bring up a 2nd prussian corps.

it was fun playing with what I felt were hamstrung French formations. I had a plan, bayonets in the spring and artillery in the Autumn that worked, but both just barely and I had some good fortune.

Also got me researching and reading about the 1813 spring campaign.

Tsk, tsk, Dan. The Guard? Really? A manly man would have run an 1813 Spring French Infantry Corps with no attached Reserve Corps cavalry division. Now THAT list is a challenge.

Kevin

viperofmilan wrote:The Guard? Really? A manly man would have run an 1813 Spring French Infantry Corps with no attached Reserve Corps cavalry division. Now THAT list is a challenge.

Not really with poor conscripts you know you can't charge...or win a firefight...or hold ground. But with average Guard conscripts you are tempted to order them to assault.

What was your list with the guards and points?

I thought I'd finally paint a unit of guards (1805ish as a start since I seem to hover around that year). When I added up the minimum I'd need to take for one guard division it came to something like 412 points without command!!! That's 2 inf + 2 cav + arty (which was horrendously expensive). The same in average line would be about half that or get twice as many troops. Oiiiii!!! The Austrians would outnumber me to no end!

Am still going to paint them, but I doubt they'll ever see the battlefield!

It was 900 points and the theme was spring 1813

I also wanted to avoid guard cav, but couldn't.
So it was divisions of young and divison of middle guard, one guard cav and one line infantry.
Not enough art in the list. I think 2 batteries.

Fortunately the opponent was not mounted heavy either.

We continued out 1813 theme this weekend. This time I took Austrian Army of Bohemia 1813 with one advanced Guard Div and one Reserve grenadier div.

I partially wanted to see how this list could cope with so little Cav.

Ironicially with a Competent Korps commander I attacked twice!

The battle partically against the spring French was a great see-saw affair. That saw some fun fights.

My light dragoons charging wavering poor conscripts who nicely formed up square...but at least the square collapsed...on the 2nd try !

I think I have finally gotten the hang of the Austrian line infantry tactics.

I have thought about trying that list out as well, grenadiers and cav but not much arty and no skirmishers, at least not in 1809. I generally steer clear of the 1813 list unless it would be a historical match up. If you want a real challenge try the boys in white in 1805, I have made several attempts but all have resulted in losses so far.

deadtorius wrote:I have thought about trying that list out as well, grenadiers and cav but not much arty and no skirmishers, at least not in 1809. I generally steer clear of the 1813 list unless it would be a historical match up. If you want a real challenge try the boys in white in 1805, I have made several attempts but all have resulted in losses so far.

Well the beauty of the Austrians almost any result exceeds the historical record.

Too true

I have used, what I think is, a pretty decent 800 point 1805 Austrian Danube list before:

L1 CC

LI DC Light division
Sm LC (Av Dr) with BC and gun
Sm LC (Av Dr)
2 x Sm Grenz (Poor Dr)
1 x Line (Av Vet) with sk & gun

L1 DC, Infantry Division
Lg Hungarians (Av Dr) with R.Sk
Sm Line (Av Vet) with gun
2 x Sm Line (Av Vet)
Sm Med. artillery (Av Dr)

L1 DC, Mixed Division
Sm Line (Av Vet) with R. Sk
Sm Line (Av Vet) with gun
Sm Cuirassier (Av Dr) with BC
Sm LC (Av Dr)
Sm Med. Artillery (Av Dr)

Unreformed Veteran Line are pretty good value at 10 points a base, and Poor Grenz at 36 points is a gift. Not much in the way of massed horse, so keep these in close support of infantry (2 units have a BC so plenty of flexibility as to where they go).

A tactic worth considering with this army is to deploy the 2 units of Grenz in extended skirmish lines and have the 4 (non rifle attachment) veteran infantry blocks touching their rear.

1. Try to move the whole formation up to 1/2 MU from the enemy (can be easier said than done if the Grenz get some 'no advances' from enemy skirmish shooting... a cavalry attachment to the Grenz might help here)

2. If enemy charge in their turn, the Grenz evade and the enemy charge is converted into a charge against your fresh veteran line infantry (many with guns) waiting behind. Excellent.

3. If enemy (wisely) don't charge, the hope is that their shooting causes your Grenz retire thorugh your Line Infantry, leaving your whitecoats within 2MU of the enemy to now return fire (they will also get first shot, or can instead assault, in your subsequent turn).

4. Your line infantry will of course have to take a CT for being evaded through by the retiring Grenz. Hopefully, being vets, most of them will pass. What is particularly annoying is if your opponent can't shoot well enough to get the 3 hits needed to retire the Grenz.

5. In case things don't go quite according to plan, have all 3 DCs, plus the CC, handy to give you 4 recovery attempts in a narrow 4 unit frontage - and meanwhile try to avoid decisive combat elsewhere on table...

This tactic can suffer a bit from the old Austrian tendancy of" "an excellent plan on paper, that somehow didn't turn out so well in practice" - but hey, that's Mack for you!

You have tried a few ideas I have not used myself, although poor Grenzers have become a staple in my Austrian armies, gotta love the skirmishers who can form into tactical if need be. And cheap to boot. Alas I always put a Jager unit in my armies if I can, expensive but best medium range shooters I can get in my opinion. As for vets, well it works if you can roll well, which I have show in the past is an ability I do not always have present Still I might just try the skirmishers right in front of the infantry tactic some time. I usually run them ahead on turn 1 to try and stop second moves which puts the Frenchies right on top of me by turn 2, we use a 4x8 table so slightly less distance to cross and only put the move restriction in for 1 turn. Although the new trial if you can pass a CMT you can move has made for an interesting game first time we tried it with most of the French moving as defenders on turn 1.

Thanks for the advice, I will have to give it a try some time and see if I can get it to work for me.

NNnnNnNnNnnnnnnnoOOOOooOOoOoooo....don't help him!!!!!!!