Slitherine

I have a simple question about ambushes.

The rules say that an ambush marker can only be placed in the outer two thirds of the table.
I can place an ambush marker in an outer third of the table but close to the centre section.

The question:
When the ambush is revealed, it is possible for some of the bases of the BG to be placed in the centre third of the table.
Is this legal?
(Obviously assuming all the other ambush rules are adhered to and the terrain has fallen in an appropriate location).

Thanks
Peter

Hi Peter,
I Would say yes you can, the restrictions are that the ambush marker must be in the two outer thirds, then you can place a base entirely on top of the ambush marker and then deploy the BG around this base.Now if these bases go out of the outer third they do it then gives no restrictions.

Andy E

Is this legal?

Personally I think it is dubious.

The section on 'Ambushing' on Page 150 refers to ambushes being possible within the outer thirds of the table. The mechanism involves an 'ambush marker' but to my mind, the ambush - and the troops in ambush - must still be in the outer third of the table.

Others will probably disagree and you can make an argument that what you describe is legal but personally I think it is stretching the point and hopefully most players wouldn't try and do this.

(Sorry Andy!)

Your thinking is quite sensible pete but i have learnt that too many players use the rules to the letter, you only got to watch this forum to see all the bickering of different interpretations, so how i read it it clearly only mentions about the marker in the outer third and as long as you place a full base over top it then gives no rerstrictions of rest of your BG as long as it is a legal formation.

andy e

It is certainly simpler and less subject to fiddling if the outer two thirds of the table restriction only applies to the ambush marker. Since the rule for placing the remaining stands of an ambush after one is placed on the marker do not include a requirement to be in the outer two thirds of the table, my interpretation would be that the restriction does not apply. But this does seem unclear in the rules so might be worth a FAQ to cover it. It does seem like a fringe case that isn't likely to make a significant difference in most games.

Chris

petedalby wrote:

Is this legal?

Personally I think it is dubious.

The section on 'Ambushing' on Page 150 refers to ambushes being possible within the outer thirds of the table. The mechanism involves an 'ambush marker' but to my mind, the ambush - and the troops in ambush - must still be in the outer third of the table.

Others will probably disagree and you can make an argument that what you describe is legal but personally I think it is stretching the point and hopefully most players wouldn't try and do this.

(Sorry Andy!)

Pete you dont have to say sorry to me your one of the true gentelmen of wargaming pal.
andy

ney63 wrote:Pete you dont have to say sorry to me your one of the true gentelmen of wargaming pal.
andy

Get a room you two.

Public forums aren't places for being nice to each other.

batesmotel wrote:It is certainly simpler and less subject to fiddling if the outer two thirds of the table restriction only applies to the ambush marker.

The rules also sy theat ambushes are only possible in the outer two-thirds. A 12 base unit could really take the p!ss if only the marker had to be in the outer two thirds, 2 deep it would extend more than 7 inches in, worse at 25mm

This is a bit like the old argument of the marker not being visible to enemy but the troops once placed extending out into the open. (was this ever resolved?)

Get a room you two.

Public forums aren't places for being nice to each other.

Of course they are. I apologised because our posts crossed and I never like to contradict someone.

Thanks for the kind words though Andy. I guess this is one of those where in the words of Gandhi "you should be the change you wish to see" - so if everyone played to the spirit rather than to the letter of the rules - particularly in cases like this - we'd all be better off. But I can but dream.

I guess if someone does pull a stroke like this they can at least have no objection when they are repaid in kind. But personally that's not the kind of game I like to play - I thought we'd moved beyond all that? Or was that just whilst I was playing FoGR?

This is a bit like the old argument of the marker not being visible to enemy but the troops once placed extending out into the open. (was this ever resolved?)

I think it was Phil. Because if any of the bases can be seen they are lost - last bullet on page 151. And that's another risk with this ploy.

petedalby wrote:

Phil wrote:Get a room you two.

Public forums aren't places for being nice to each other.

Of course they are. I apologised because our posts crossed and I never like to contradict someone.

Except me

prb4 wrote:I have a simple question about ambushes.

The rules say that an ambush marker can only be placed in the outer two thirds of the table.
I can place an ambush marker in an outer third of the table but close to the centre section.

The question:
When the ambush is revealed, it is possible for some of the bases of the BG to be placed in the centre third of the table.
Is this legal?
(Obviously assuming all the other ambush rules are adhered to and the terrain has fallen in an appropriate location).

Thanks
Peter

No. The rules are quite clear. Ambushes are not allowed in the central third. To paraphrase, the general run of the ambush rules are:

- ambushes in outer thirds only
- put an ambush marker down in outer third.
- when the ambush is revealed put the BG down partly on the ambush marker. Lose any bases that don't fit.

So if only a small part of the ambush friendly terrain is in the outer third, you might lose lots of the bases as they can only go in the outer third and can't be visible, etc.

grahambriggs wrote:

prb4 wrote:I have a simple question about ambushes.

The rules say that an ambush marker can only be placed in the outer two thirds of the table.
I can place an ambush marker in an outer third of the table but close to the centre section.

The question:
When the ambush is revealed, it is possible for some of the bases of the BG to be placed in the centre third of the table.
Is this legal?
(Obviously assuming all the other ambush rules are adhered to and the terrain has fallen in an appropriate location).

Thanks
Peter

No. The rules are quite clear. Ambushes are not allowed in the central third. To paraphrase, the general run of the ambush rules are:

- ambushes in outer thirds only
- put an ambush marker down in outer third.
- when the ambush is revealed put the BG down partly on the ambush marker. Lose any bases that don't fit.

So if only a small part of the ambush friendly terrain is in the outer third, you might lose lots of the bases as they can only go in the outer third and can't be visible, etc.

... visible from the enemy deployment area for skirmishers.

grahambriggs wrote: - when the ambush is revealed put the BG down partly on the ambush marker. Lose any bases that don't fit.

Could this autobreak a BG or does it mean that the BG is just deplyed now at that strength?

I hear what everyone is saying on this.
It seems that the rules aren't entirely clear so I guess if this came up in a competition it would be worth clarifying it with the umpire prior to putting the ambush marker down. It does rather give away the fact that something is there though.

Perhaps an FAQ could easily clear this up?
(Although I admit it probably isn't a "Frequently" asked question!)

prb4 wrote:I hear what everyone is saying on this.
It seems that the rules aren't entirely clear so I guess if this came up in a competition it would be worth clarifying it with the umpire prior to putting the ambush marker down. It does rather give away the fact that something is there though.

Perhaps an FAQ could easily clear this up?
(Although I admit it probably isn't a "Frequently" asked question!)

I read through the rules on it recently. They are clear, it seems to me. It's more likely that people do not check the rulebook before posting.

prb4 wrote: I guess if this came up in a competition it would be worth clarifying it with the umpire prior to putting the ambush marker down.

I think we just have for Britcon at least

After reading it several times i do agree now with what it says and im eating humble pie.
But to my little weak defence i always said i agree in priciple that was the right thing and now ive read it over again your right MR Briggs.

Andy E

grahambriggs wrote: I read through the rules on it recently. They are clear, it seems to me. It's more likely that people do not check the rulebook before posting.

BEFORE POSTING.
I think a certain variety play with out reading and rule without considering.
posting is less than a trifle to them who shall not be named but know they have been named.

Are people really going to be dragging out the deployment rulers in the middle of the battle to make sure a couple bases don't extend 5 millimeters into the center third of the table?

Chris' comment seems pretty reasonable:

It is certainly simpler and less subject to fiddling if the outer two thirds of the table restriction only applies to the ambush marker.

bbotus wrote:Are people really going to be dragging out the deployment rulers in the middle of the battle to make sure a couple bases don't extend 5 millimeters into the center third of the table?

Chris' comment seems pretty reasonable:

It is certainly simpler and less subject to fiddling if the outer two thirds of the table restriction only applies to the ambush marker.

Not for 5mm but certainly for someone taking liberties