Slitherine

Many people find it hard to get into historicals because thye have no idea what the units look like or where to buy them.

If a company would do starter armies or unit packs it could go a long way towards making this game a big success.

A number of companies offer army sets to fit various rules or just as starters - i guess it's a matter of conecting their information to the potential player of the rules in question.

Some fan web-sited of various rules publish a list of such suppliers.

regards

David Brown

shakespear wrote:Many people find it hard to get into historicals because thye have no idea what the units look like or where to buy them.

If a company would do starter armies or unit packs it could go a long way towards making this game a big success.

Well many companies already offer 'pre-made' armies for DBA or DBM (though for DBM it's usually just the skeleton rather then a really complete army). If FoG become succesful enough I'm sure similar offers will appear for it. However given that many armies offer a lot of options and wargamers rarely agree what variation is the best it's unlikely to be more then the 'skeleton' solution we see for DBM.

It might be worthwhile to add the websites of a good number of miniature producing or retailing companies somewhere in the appendix though or at least include mention of the TMP site as a convenient way find the minis you need.


Karsten

I started out with a DBM box army and now have refined it the way I want it.

they do need to be more beginner friendly, instead of "here is a big bag of figs!"

Boxed FoG armies will I am sure appear once the rules are published. I suspect that 15mm armies at least would end up much like the existing DBM army boxes i.e. a load of figures in a box.

I have been considering the possibilities and options around producing tailored boxed armies for FoG and have a number of ideas that might work.

Hammy

FoW can attest its sucess to the concept of miniatures being an integral part of user buy in. It would be nice if FoG could somehow follow suit.

Bill

It's true but Battlefront was a miniatures creator before to be a rules creator. I don't think than Slitherine and Osprey want to sculpt some figures.

Carthage, please don't even think of that! That's the GW approach: "Buy the Rulez, buy the Figurez, buy the Bookz, all in the same place. All our products are the official ones, all the rest is illegal"!

Actually, I think it is a great idea. While in some countries finding historical miniatures is fairly easy, I know it is impossible here in the Netherlands, for example. If you want FoG/historical wargaming to become mainstream, you would really have to make it as easy as possible to get started. 10 years ago, even adult boardgames were underground here, but know you can find them in bookstores and department stores. Personally, I would like to see FoG/historical wargaming to become as big as possible. The only way to do that is to have it sold at as many places as possible. Why not have two cheap 20mm plastic starter armies included in a box?

While I am not a proponent for "use our minis, our rules, our etc.." I do favor "support" for the full components of a game via a single manufacturer. I mean can you imagine if you went to play Monopoly and had to go to vender X to get the buildings, vender B for the property cards etc...

I would actually rather see an "officially licensed" type program from Osprey for manufacturers to build sets for the game. This could lead to ease of access to minis and keep the GW factor low. The venders could then collaborate with Osprey on product specifics etc.

Imagine if you could buy a complete Osprey Army list book with the appropriate Men-at-arms type book with FoG modeling and army tips combined with a handful of minis for a specific Army.

My 2 cents anyway..
Bill

I think quite the opposite. The more the merrier, especially with irregular armies. Why have your units (or battlegroups) all in the same position, while if I use figures from several manufacturers I can get a variety of poses? Aesthetically it's much more pleasing than having 48 copies of the same old peltast at the same old attitude folding the knee at the same angle.

My Seleucids for instance use figures from Minifigs, Metal Magic, Essex, Chariot, plus a few others I don't remember. My later Romans are Minifigs again, more Essex, and at least two other manufacturers now defunct.

Even if you're not mixing figures in the same unit, you can easily tell units apart for using units made up of figures form different manufacturers. And no, some manufacturers are not luckier than others.

And this is written by a guy who never had access to bookstores and department stores. I live in a one-horse town in the midle of no place and everything I have was purchased by mail order, starting in 1972. So if I could do it anyone can.

Down with uniformity, long live variety!

By the way, at least Essex do sell Army Packs...

Carthage wrote:I would actually rather see an "officially licensed" type program from Osprey for manufacturers to build sets for the game. This could lead to ease of access to minis and keep the GW factor low. The venders could then collaborate with Osprey on product specifics etc.

Imagine if you could buy a complete Osprey Army list book with the appropriate Men-at-arms type book with FoG modeling and army tips combined with a handful of minis for a specific Army.

Given that Osprey has a rather mixed record as to the historical accuracy in it's publications and especially in the depictions I'm less then sure I want to see 'official' minis (that probably would have to adhere to what is stated and shown in the corresponding Osprey publications).

Another basic problem with generating 'official miniatures' or just pre-made army packs is the sheer number of armies and the diversity of troops, even within a list (i.e. a knight looked quite differently in 1150 then in 1250, but might well be covered by the same army list and might even have the same stats).


Karsten

Given that Osprey has a rather mixed record as to the historical accuracy in it's publications and especially in the depictions I'm less then sure I want to see 'official' minis (that probably would have to adhere to what is stated and shown in the corresponding Osprey publications).

I don't necessarily see "official" as being mandatory, but rather "compliant". There are ways to give support to the community as a whole and integrate a product without being the "minis police" like some, it would just take some good marketing and flexability.

Another basic problem with generating 'official miniatures' or just pre-made army packs is the sheer number of armies and the diversity of troops, even within a list (i.e. a knight looked quite differently in 1150 then in 1250, but might well be covered by the same army list and might even have the same stats).

This is why I say "licensed" or "supported" whatever the term, so that existing and new venders could continue their lines and add to it if they want. It can be a win-win if done right I believe.

The real problem here is getting a younger and larger base of Historical gamers and it "is" difficult to grasp it all if you are new to the genre. I have played various games (99% fantasy GW type stuff) all the way back to the old Chainmail rules, but as I venture into Historicals it has been somewhat confusing at times. I see FoG as the type of game and publisher that can give Historicals a mainstream feel, and given the sucess of GW, FoW and others I know it can be done.

All in all I just want a great game with good support and a "bunch" of people I can play with!

Cheers, Bill

Which two of the 5000 or so possible historical armies should be included in a boxed set? Slitherine could do like the "clicky-base" figures and include two "random" armies in each box, so you could buy 20 sets of rules to get all of the armies.... Let's get serious, Slitherine is a software company diversifying into miniatures rules, not a miniatures manufacturer or distributor. It doesn't make a lot of sense for them to get involved in selling miniatures.

I would rather see a listing of several manufactureres of figures, with website links, pictures, and prices, provided as a supplemental sheet in the rule book. I suspect that a number of figure manufacturers would be more than happy to provide an "insert" sheet advertising their products, to be included with the rules.

excellent point of view !
totally agree it ;

thefrenchjester " leadhead "

Which part of "licensing" official lines to other venders has anything to do with Osprey or Slitherine manufaturing or selling minis? Like it or not, it is a business model that works.

Bill

Carthage wrote:Which part of "licensing" official lines to other venders has anything to do with Osprey or Slitherine manufaturing or selling minis? Like it or not, it is a business model that works.

It's also a business modell that tends to increase prices (i.e. if we give you the supported miniatures stamp this costs a percentage of your sales), so there needs to be some incentive to manufacturers. Two obvious ones:
1.) The less certain way: Aggressive marketing by or at least with the aid of the publishers.
2.) The easier and proved way: Only supported miniatures are permitted for official tournaments etc.

Given that many wargamers already have armies way 2 (i.e. the GW method) would probably doom the rules, but can way 1 provide enough incentive to manufacturers?

Yes in theory Slitherine/Osprey do not have to damand compensation for the 'supported' label but frankly it's work for them, it's a possible source of income for them and they are here to make money. Not to mentioned most people (me included) would expect them to check the minis that get the 'supported' stamp for historical accuracy, and that would be a rather ugly job. (For example I've recently seen an announcement for new Sassanian Minis. Which are looking just like a rehash of existing Minis and probably based on them or research outdated and proved wrong for over 20 years now.) Certainly no one wishes such minis to be 'supported'?


Karsten

If you follow the link of one of the major shows in the UK

http://www.salute.co.uk/salute/traders. ... rader_name

You'll see the list of the established figure makers etc. you are going to antagonize. Please explain how is the hobby going to benefit by this.

Besides, Zvezda (I think) has launched a few boxes of their plastic 20mm figures for both sides with rules, painting instructions, etc, all set for a game. We didn't really see an explosion, did we?