Slitherine

I’m intensify number of testing before “FoG Jaén Tournament” and playing any kind of pieces, so in our last game we played with a Medieval German with War Wagons to test this one.

We have a lot of question about and sugentions after use it.

Questions:

Q1.- A column of two war wagons have a front of 4 cm. and 16 cm wide. If the first wagon wheel 1 MU and anvance the rest, the other one move straight forward and as result battle group end kinked? I think yes and remain kinked until the last wagon reach the kinked point, but I’m not sure.

Q2.- About hit per bases, one War Wagon fighting on it’s long edge count as two bases or two bases per base width, and therefore count as 4 bases?

Q3.- Rules state that War Wagons moves “are at least complex movement”. So all movement for them are complex or impossible, or complex moves become in impossible movement? I think the first option is correct but again I’m not sure.


Suggestions:

S1.- War Wagons are too slow and difficult maneover by it’s great base size. I think that currently is a useless piece because you need test to move, and usually it will be very static all the game. Possiby would be interesting that “simple advance” don’t count them as “complex move”.

S2.- I can’t understand why War Wagons can’t shoot to the front or to the rear, but I’m sure that authors can explain it. Most of the War Wagon are open carts. If you shoot by the long edge you shoot 4 dice, 2 per base with, so if you shoot at the fornt edge only throw 2 dice, and therefore you have less effectiveness. No shoot it’s a hard penalization.

And another diferent question, in our last game, a BG of MF with bow move at 6 MU from enemy Camp. I look in the rules, but there is nothing about shooting Camp. In DBM you can shoot Camp, but only take 1 point per base instead 2. Sound strange, It’s this deliberate?

I rather like the limitations on war wagons as much more historical. The DBM dancing war wagons had no place in history. The most manuverable WWG were the Hussites who at best marched up close to their foes who then charged the war wagons usually hafter the wagons had tied chains etc.

Questions:

Q1.- A column of two war wagons have a front of 4 cm. and 16 cm wide. If the first wagon wheel 1 MU and anvance the rest, the other one move straight forward and as result battle group end kinked? I think yes and remain kinked until the last wagon reach the kinked point, but I’m not sure.

Yes its a column like any other

Q2.- About hit per bases, one War Wagon fighting on it’s long edge count as two bases or two bases per base width, and therefore count as 4 bases?

They cound as 2 always for hits per bases - where and what it is doing is irrelevant for this bit. When fighting treat a long edge as 2 bases side by side for the purposes of how many dice they get and remember they only shoot from the side. All other normal rules then apply.

Q3.- Rules state that War Wagons moves “are at least complex movement”. So all movement for them are complex or impossible, or complex moves become in impossible movement? I think the first option is correct but again I’m not sure.

Correct - impossible not beign considered movement by the authors. Basically all War Wagons must take a test to move at all. This makes them much realistic al a Dans posting above. Must say though that hussites till ar rather fun to try out. Have done so twice and almost won the games with them. So good bye dancing war wagons we loved you, not.

S1.- War Wagons are too slow and difficult maneover by it’s great base size. I think that currently is a useless piece because you need test to move, and usually it will be very static all the game. Possiby would be interesting that “simple advance” don’t count them as “complex move”.

They were pretty unmanoeuvrable in history too, and static in most battles. You can make them very valauble items in an army but only for specific purposes. We tersted this to death and found it best as it is. The only army that should be able to tur War Wagons into a material strategic item are hissutes and they can by having 6 or 7 BGs each of 2 and suddenly some material - but slow - manouvre appears.

S2.- I can’t understand why War Wagons can’t shoot to the front or to the rear, but I’m sure that authors can explain it. Most of the War Wagon are open carts. If you shoot by the long edge you shoot 4 dice, 2 per base with, so if you shoot at the fornt edge only throw 2 dice, and therefore you have less effectiveness. No shoot it’s a hard penalization.

Its a wargamers myth created by previous rule sets I'm afraid. They were set up to fight fromt he sides and shoot this way. The tanks with forward facing turrets came a bit later . Forwards and backwards they were very vulnerable which is why they generally deployed out static so only the side was fighting.

And another diferent question, in our last game, a BG of MF with bow move at 6 MU from enemy Camp. I look in the rules, but there is nothing about shooting Camp. In DBM you can shoot Camp, but only take 1 point per base instead 2. Sound strange, It’s this deliberate?

Yes a littel shooting is really irelevant given the size these camps were in reality - get stuck in an loot it properly.

while the changes in rules accurately reflect Western usage, it does not reflect Chinese usage. The Chinese began using them as early as 250AD, and generally used carts stuffed with crossbowmen, rather than wagons. They also used them aggressively, as the spearhead for an infantry advance. Later Chinese improved by mounting light artillery, as many as 2 swivel guns. They didn't use animals for combat movement instead using the assigned infantry (up to 20) to push them forward so discussions about difficult of moving heavy wagons didn't apply. They also appeared to use them in line abreast across a significant frontage. The descriptions for their usage are pretty consistent, if intermittent over approximately 14 centuries.

Suspect the only way to represent this in FOG would be a different troop type (like the Spanish warcarts at Ravenna in the Renaissance, which are not treated as wagons but as fast moving artillery in DBR. Perhaps 'battlecarts'? on 40mm or 60mm deep bases?

Don't worry I can see several ways of handling them in FOG if they really did fight that way. Wea re starting to kick around the chinese lists at present. Any good evidence of this would be handy if you can e-mail us it.

Feel free to send it to rbs or me or terry

Si