Slitherine

Basically got shafted in both games with Medieval Germans crushing my Medieval French and my Early Germans managing a draw against Late Republican Romans.

1. Late Medieval Germans vs Medieval French

My boys:

4 TCs
6 x 4 average KN, HA, L, SW (Undrilled)
2 x 6 average Genoese Xbow MF, P, Xbow(Drilled)
2 x 6 average French Xbow MF, P, Xbow (Undrilled)
1 x 6 average Spanish Xbow LF, Xbow (Undrilled)
1 x 6 average Bidets LF, L. Spear, javelins (Undrilled)
1 x 10 Poor Peasants Mob

The dastardly Huns:

1 FC, 2 TCs
2 x 6 average KN, HA, L, SW (Drilled)
1 x 8 average Xbow MF, P, Xbow (Drilled)
1 x 12 average Pikemen HF, P (Drilled)
1 x 8 (I think) average Pikemen HF, P (Drilled)
1 x 8 average Halbediers HF, A, HW (Drilled)
1 x 8 average Archers LF, bow (Drilled)
1 x 8 average Xbow LF, Xbow (Drilled)
1 x 4 average Mounted Xbow Cav, A, Xbow, SW (Drilled)

The terrain played no decisive part in the game so I won't bother describing it.

From left to right starting from the left flank table edge:

Genose, Knights, French Xbow, Knights, Knights, French Xbow, Knights, Knights, Genoese.

Facing,

MF Xbow, 2 x Knights (one behind the other), 2 x Pike, Halberdiers, Archers, Xbow Skirmishers, Mounted Xbow. My Bidets and LF, Xbow screened the French Xbow units.


The game started with my opponent deploying two units LF archers. Eagle-eyed as I am I pointed out that the list only allowed one unit of LF archers so we agreed to change them to LF xbow. However, looks like I wasn't eagle-eyed enough as the list only allows one unit of foot skirmishers. Ah well, never mind.

The game started and both lines lumbered towards each other without much attempt at manoeuvering except on the right flank where the German mounted Xbow with a general tried to outflank the Genoese. They failed miserably due to the Genoese peeling off to deal with them. They extended into single line to extend their arc of fire and a couple of turns later the Germans were streaming back to their lines in rout. Job well done if I say so myself.

Just to the left of this dramatic flank action my two BGs of knights ended up facing the two LF units and got shot to bits. Frequent charges relieved pressure and a TC managed to bolster back to steady. However, the knights were out of the game as a result. (note for beginners: the authors have kindly added a tip warning you specifically not to do what I did. Doh!)

Further along the line. My LF Xbow got caught by the halberdiers first charge which was a bit galling. Fortunately I managed to manoeuver the French Xbow out of the way of the routers to position them just behind the halberdiers flank. However, by the time I got the buggers to turn around and do anything meaningful the battle was pretty much over.

The Knight BG in the centre extended into line and got charged by the large pike unit and won the combat which meant we couldn't break off and when the second pike unit got involved it was overwhelmed.

The next combat was interesting as the French Xbow shot up the German Knights while a French Kn BG charge the end elements on each flank. Rolled badly, eventually lost two bases from each Kn BG and that was that.

Finally, the left flank the Genoese emulated their right flank colleagues by shooting three bases off the German Xbow for one loss. Admitedly they had a French Kn BG standing next to them absorbing fire which helped. The Kn duly charged the Xbow to finish them off, failed to kill a base or disrupt them and were then charged in the flank by the reserve German Kn BG.

Conclusions:

Average Knights in BGs of 4 bases = poo. Need to be superior or in sixes but superior is best.

Keep the effin' Knights in reserve or screen them with skirmishers so they don't end up on a futile chase of enemy skirmishers. Above all else this cost me the game as even one unit of Kn would have been able to roll up the German flank starting with the halberdiers.

God is on the side of the big battalions. Mounted are brittle.

Triple check opponents list.

Roll better combat dice.

2. Early German vs Late Republican Roman

My boys:

1 IC, 1 TC, 2 allied TC

Tencteri allies
2 x 10 Tencteri Warriors average HF, P, IF, SW (Undrilled)
1 x 4 Tencteri cavalry average LF, L. Spear, javelins (Undrilled)
1 x 4 Tencteri javelinmen average LH, L. Spear, javelins (Undrilled)

Batavian allies
1 x 10 Batavian Warriors average HF, P, IF, SW (Undrilled)
1 x 4 Batavian javelinmen average LF, L. Spear, javelins (Undrilled)

Chatti (or whatever)

3 x Chatti Warriors 10 average HF, P, IF, SW (Undrilled)
2 x Chatti Noble cavalry 4 superior Cav, P, L. Spear, SW (Undrilled)
1 x Chatti archers 6 average LF, bow (Undrilled)
1 x Chatti javelinmen 6 average LF, L. Spear, javelins (Undrilled)

The effeminate Romans:

1 IC, 2 TC

4 x Legionnaries 6 superior HF, A, IF, sSW (Drilled)
1 x Legionnaries 4 superior HF, A, IF, sSW (Drilled)
1 x archers 6 average LF, bow (Undrilled)
1 x archers 6 average LF, sling (Undrilled)
1 x Light Horse 4 average LH, L. Spear, javelins (Undrilled)
2 x Cavalry 4 superior Cav, P, L. Spear, SW (Undrilled)
1 x Raetian foot 8 average MF, P, Off. Spear (Undrilled)

Again terrain played no part.

From left to right:

The Batavian Warriors + javelinmen and Tencteri javelinmen + LH faced the Roman Light horse and Raetian foot. 1 Tencteri and 2 Chatti Warrior BGs faced the four Legions of 6 bases. 1 Tencteri Warrior BG and the 4 base Legion provided rear support to their respective front line units. The Roman cavalry faced the last Chatti Warrior BG and their skirmishers faced the Chatti cavalry. The Chatti skirmishers were beyond the cavalry extending the right flank beyond the Roman line.
All Warrior units were in three ranks: 4-4-2.

Given the Legionnaries' superiority in melee I decided it was best to press the advantage on both flanks and delayed the advance of the centre for as long as possible. The Roman countered by moving a legion, the cavalry and skirmishers to match the frontage on my right flank. The gap left in the line was filled by the reserve legion hurried along by no less that Julius Caesar. My javelinmen made mincemeat of his archers, his slingers did the same to my archers and when both returned from pursuit the slingers whacked the javelinmen when these charged them. The cavalry combat was long and drawn out with my lot consistently losing but passing cohesion tests and every so often losing a base. Eventually the one on my left auto broke and the enemy unit eventually returned to charged the nearest warrior unit in the rear. To no effect.

On the other flank the Raetian foot and Batavians slogged it out until the last round when the former finally legged it home. The Batavian javelinmen and enemy light horse traded desultory javelin shooting until I got so bored with it that in the last round I charged them and...we drew. Further in as the legions advanced they exposed a flank which the Tencteri LH duly exploited to charge the nearest legion in the rear and the next one along the flank.

In the centre the two lines eventually met and the legions demonstrated their overwhelming superiority by winning every single combat but were matched by the seemingly endless reserves of third rank bases and a refusal to fail cohesion tests (IC helped a lot here). The only success was on the left where the Tencteri warriors finally broke the end legion when it was distracted by the cavalry charge to its rear.

We ran out of time with three units broken each and called it a draw although it was just a matter of time before the Germans were sent howling back to the forests. The Roman legionnaries were steadily chopping their way through the German ranks and I couldn't see any way of defeating them other than rolling up their flanks.

Conclusions:

If the list allows, it's worth paying for armour even if it means having fewer units.

An inspired commander combined with a small number of large units is a very good investment.

Reserves in the centre with a general are a good idea.

Wotan is definitely on the side of the big battalions. My mounted are brittle and feckin useless.

Remind me to buy more dice. I burned my combat dice.


Overall Conclusions:

Good set of rules. Very playable with both games finishing in 3 and a half hours with either a rout or more than 12 turns played. Not bad for three beginners with no one to advise them. Not bad at all.

Good historical feel to both battles with the exception that once the main units get into melee it's very static due to the lack of push-backs or retires. Doesn't feel quite right but as I explained in other post (in the public forum) I think it's a fair trade between playability and historical accuracy especially for competitions.

On the negative side we thought the terrain rather easily avoided with the current set-up rules but obviously with two games under our belt it's probably a little early to make definite judgements.

The other point was whether there is any point in having a proper second line (not the odd unit) behind your main battle line. It's clearly an expensive way to provide the rear support bonus as a handful of units can do it for less points. As a second line it clearly can't replace the first line in combat until it has been destroyed and will probably not be able to do much even then. Between routing units bursting through and the army nearing breaking point the likelihood of getting stuck is remote. Mind you it probably didn't happen much either in historical battles.


All for now until the Jaen competition probably.

Regards,

Julian

Average Knights in BGs of 4 bases = poo. Need to be superior or in sixes but superior is best.

Keep the effin' Knights in reserve or screen them with skirmishers so they don't end up on a futile chase of enemy skirmishers. Above all else this cost me the game as even one unit of Kn would have been able to roll up the German flank starting with the halberdiers.

God is on the side of the big battalions. Mounted are brittle.

All reasoably sound IMO. Porioably the most important is not to let 1 BG of 4 get isoalted chansing skirmsihers or you end up like the Crusaders at Hattin - worn out and autobroken by continued harrassment.

Timing and place ment of troops at a macro level the key.

On the German game what we like is the tough fight where the Romans have a clear edge but it can go hooribly wrong at first impact - one of the benefits of ssparatin of Impact and Melee. Takes some time to break big BGs down - my Ancient Britons manage the same in 10s and 12s and gradually the death roll effect can weaken the Roman even with Sk Sw. And there is about a 35% chance of winning the impact phase and even superior Romans will lose that CT test once in a whileif they lose by 2 hits. Playing this about 10,000 times simulated as a head up smash it was abouy 75/25 to the Romans but not often a sudden collapse and with a ned to be carfeful with timing - as you were - and use of generals.

I have payed Britons vs Romans 3 times. Twice suffered and army rout but had the Romans onthe rbink themsleves at the time. Once detroyed a Roman army to man with no losses!!

Glad you enjoyed it. You can imagine perhaps over the 12 bounds how much time might be spent moving figures doing pushbacks plus the added complexity of how to follow-up troops who wre and were not pushed back etc. It is from this type of battle that we decided it was far better to have the speed an playability and it felt very historical anyway.

Another consideration in doing so is this. We use figures - so the bases of BGs are really overstated and contain within them room for a decent push back. As a rough guide consider a base is about 250 men so for the Wb probably 80 wide and 3 deep then packed 3 deep as bases. Roughly that might be 80-100m per frontage. A BG of 10 4-4-2 deep would repesent 2500 warriors from several villages under a senior chieftan and be 3-400m wide on the table and 100-150m deep as represented. In reality however they are indeed the 3-400m wide but only perhaps 10m deep - so a full 100m+ of push backs is in fact covered just within the physical base depths of the enganged BGs. I imagine them being pushed backwards and forward a bit within this "zone".

Si