Slitherine

I can't win this one consistently. I've been stuck on it over a month. I welcome your advice. Thanks.
My core is

Inf
2x Grenadier
2x Grenadier SE

Armor
2x PZIII H
1x PZIIIJ
3x PZIVF
1xT34
1x PZIIIJ SE
Arty
3x 10.5 cm
2x 21cm
2x Sturmpanzer1
AAA
3x 8.8cm
Fighter
5xBf109E
Tactical
3x Ju87D
1xBf110F
Strategic
2x DO217

My Core:

Inf 9
3x FsJg with SdkFz
2x Pio
4x SE Grenadiere

Tank
1x PzIV/F2
1x SE PzIV/F2
2x T34/41
2x KV-1B

Recon
2x SdKfz 232

Arty
5x WR40
2x Sturmpanzer I

AA
1x 8.8 mobile

Fighter
4x Bf109F

Tac
8x Ju 87D

Edit: At FM and this army has captured all objects and destroyed all KI units. After the action finaly the trains rolls to the south.

Just some very short answer with limited usefulness.
You guys need way more tanks (take the game title as hint Panzer = Tank). I would recommend not to important your previous core or start fresh. At least try to get a half dozen PzIVF/2. Their ground defense is still bad against advanced russian tanks, but at least they got now a strong soft attack and hard attack. Back them up with arty to discourage russian tanks from attack your tanks during the AI turn. When it's your turn use mass arty to suppress enemy tanks then attack with your own to reduce causalities.

For comparison excerpt (not the complete list) of my imported core :
3Inf
3SE Inf
5 PzIIIJ/1
6 PzIVF (upgraded to PzIVF/2)
2 SE PzIIIJ/1
1 recon
2 15cm arty
1 17cm arty
3 StuG IIIB
6 Sturmpanzer
3 Wurfrahmen
9 Bf109
5 BF110
5 Ju88

I have payed Vitebsk about three or for times, mainly on Colonel (Oberst) level. Don't know what level you are playing on.

First: Concentrate on your objectives. You have to bring four trains south to Vitebsk for a DV. So you have to clear the rail lines. Nothing more. Everything else is optional (capturing cities and airports f.e., although in the West you may capture a T34...).

The interesting part of the map ranges from about row 8 to row 25. I never encountred any enemies north (of row 8 ) or south (of row 25 ). Behind your troops there are partisans. Destroy them first, because they not only block your rail lines but obstruct your troop movement from north to south and east to west vice versa. The Soviets start two assaults from the west and from the east near to the Zapadnaya river. Your 8,8 Flak might help here against the armored units (and against soviet planes).

Mobility is important. You have to shift troops north- and southward often. Attacks occur as south as the Jeziaryska area. Velikye Luki and Putoshka are enemy targets also. Concentrate your troops instead of scattering them.And always keep your objective in mind: Keep the rail lines clear! Btw. the Panzerzug (armored train) is very useful as an additional and very mobile artillery.

I hope your infantry is on halftracks. This is important for the mobility especially in winter. I prefer Me 110 to Ju 87. They are slightly worse bombers, but they don't need escort, in fact, they are useful finishing off soviet planes.

This is it for the moment. I hope I could help you a little bit. If you kave more questions, feel free...

Hi daved, I googled what scenario Vitebsk exactly was. I remember I played it and dug up this thread from the now open beta forum:

viewtopic.php?f=125&t=30320&hilit=vitebsk

nikivdd: "If you ever want to feel like a double cheese burger, simply play Vitebsk."

Read your objectives. You are fighting a defensive battle against a superior force but you are only asked to "Escort 4 Convoy Units South of the Dvina River".
That's the victory condition. Also important for you is to minimize core unit losses.

I used StuGs as rear guard for other retreating units. They are cheap alternatives to a Panzer IV but have weak soft attack. You need more artillery, ideally self-propelled, to reduce losses or prevent enemy attacks right away. Infantry can damage Panzer III and StuGs are fighting poorly against Infantry as well so they need a StuG IIIB or artillery support to prevent Infantry attacks on them.

The idea is not to attack yourself but let the enemy attack you and finish off weakened attackers while retreating. Destroy their tanks and let their infantry attack units backed up by your artillery, you take nearly no losses and they either suffer a bloodbath or simply don't dare to attack.

Also consider 1-2 recon units. You will appreciate their dual movement and recon abilities. They will most likely die, but they are cheap and save other units. You cannot react appropriate to enemy attacks if you do not even know what is coming for you.


You don't have to destroy the enemy to win this one, you only have to get away. Fight defensively and leave aux units behind. Don't fight everywhere, you must concentrate your forces. You are not winning if you barely hold every side of the railroad, win big at one two spots and voila, you have free troops to aid your other troops where need arises.

Timing is important in this scenario. You must take care of the partisans blocking your RR line first. The Russians attack from the East and West first, then from the SW and finally the NW. A nearly unstoppable horde advances from the SE, late in the game.
Lots of close terrain here, ideal for infantry. Dig into the city hexes, hills and forests, back up your troops with artillery and let the Russians immolate themselves.
Hit their attacking troops with airpower and/or artillery and kill them as quickly as possible. Do not advance until you can see no further adjacent units anywhere, then advance one hex at a time, always backing up your units with artillery.
I generally play with about 8 infantry, I like to pair up grenadier/pioniere with a Gebirgsjager.
Artillery is very important, I usually keep around 6 150mm towed artillery, with about three of the basic assault gun to help with mobile advances of more than one hex.Sturmpanzers may be more efficient but they are too unhistorical in the game for my taste so I play w/o them.
I only play with two Tacs as they are hard to keep escorted. I play the whole campaign with no more than 6 fighters. Strategic bombers are one of the more unappreciated but incredibly useful units around.
As others have said, the only mandatory objective is to get your convoys south of the river so you can win w/o advancing far if you choose. When I last played this scenario at Field Marshal level last week I took every objective and elimated all Russians except the mob in the SE w/o losing a unit.
As Deducter likes to say, "Best to be cautious". Let them come to you and eliminate every damaged Russian unit you can and they will eventually be depleted enough for you to advance.
If you disband your extra Tac you should have the prestige to upgrade your PzIVFs to the F/2 model. Keep your tanks in clear terrain, and back them with artillery and they should be fine.
I suspect that with 21cm guns and Sturmpanzers running out of ammo is a problem. The 170mm is the most efficient artillery in the game, best compromise between ammo supply and firepower. The StgIII is almost perfect for backing up your units, and is also usable in an organized advance.
Sure hope this helps. Being stuck on the same scenario for a month would sure depress me.

daved wrote:I can't win this one consistently. I've been stuck on it over a month. I welcome your advice. Thanks.
My core is

Inf
2x Grenadier
2x Grenadier SE

Armor
2x PZIII H
1x PZIIIJ
3x PZIVF
1xT34
1x PZIIIJ SE
Arty
3x 10.5 cm
2x 21cm
2x Sturmpanzer1
AAA
3x 8.8cm
Fighter
5xBf109E
Tactical
3x Ju87D
1xBf110F
Strategic
2x DO217

Id say your core is the problem. You only have 12 ground fighting units. While artillery,AA and Air have 21 units. Do you really need 11 aircraft? You have 3 88mm too. With a core so light on ground troops, if you struggle here you will find it very hard going later when the city fighting comes along. Once you kill off the russian troops mixed in behind you, this one is simply a game of sit and defend, keeping a rail line open. Which you are having trouble with cause you dont have enough troops of the ground to hold the ground needed. Id double your infantry at least, I run about 10 infantry units.

Anfield has a point, you are overdoing on airpower and this leaves you vulnerable on the ground. If you can't block the enemy and protect your troops your airpower won't swing the tide. Fighters make poor ground attackers.

Thanks everyone. I play at FM and have 10K prestige to start. I do add some infantry units and don't deploy my strategic bombers. I downgrade my 21cm to 15cm and upgrade all armor to PIVF/2. I cheat and fly the units south of the river instead of using the train.