Slitherine

It seems I have misunderstood the effect of russian winters

In russia proper both sides get a reduction of effectiveness with the axis suffering a bigger reduction then the russians BUT.

This reduction is a one off, it does not continue for every winter turn

both sides recover effectiveness over the following turns and the axis recover effectiveness much faster.

so if you are relying on the russian winter to save you, you may be dissapointed!

Dave

IIRC there are further winter effects for 1-2 years, but not as drastic as the first one

True, S_O, true. But I agree with the OP that winter effects are too mild.

One of the "tricks of the trade" is to let the Sovs' attack you....then just don't enter Russia for the first winter - the effects stop at he border......if you line up on it then the Sov's suffer and you don't!!

Sorry, I think I didn't make myself clear.

The recovery of effectiveness takes place during winter game turns so the effect only lasts 2 or 3 turns each winter and the axis are back to at least equal effectivness to the russians

So later winters have not much effect at all

dave

I agree the affect should be harsher.. should units in cities or units that are entrenched be less affected since they are better prepared for winter? If the German army had not gone back on the offensive in Nov 41 and dug in, they would not have been as badly impacted, trains could have been bringing winter gear rather than ammo to the front..

ER.....why should the effect last longer? It didn't last all winter historically, and hte Axis DID get over it during the cold weather - say Feb-March 42 for the first one.

it usually take a bit longer than a couple of turns to get back 35 effectiveness for the first winter, and the subsequent ones were not anywhere near as bad.....

I ran a test with the new patch and it appears the 1941 reduction is 25 effectiveness. this does not take long to recover.
the russian reduction for 1941 is 6 ?

Ah! i just remembered, the effect starts a very high level for 1939 and reduces by 10 each year.

Dave

stalins_organ wrote:One of the "tricks of the trade" is to let the Sovs' attack you....then just don't enter Russia for the first winter - the effects stop at he border......if you line up on it then the Sov's suffer and you don't!!

WTF, and let the russians keep all those lovely resources all that time?

Dave, can you doubel check that 25 number? It is supposed to be for Axis

55-10xYEAR

so in 1941 it should be 35 effect drop for Axis


from the general.txt script ->

AXIS_WINTER_SUFFER 55
ALLIES_WINTER_SUFFER 30

OK i ran a couple of tests on the 1940 and 1941 winters with the patched game.

1940 - the dialogue reported a 45 drop and I can confirm this

1941 - the dialogue reported a 35 drop and I can confirm this

What is going on ????

A test I ran a few days ago had the 1941 levels dropping by approx 25.

I checked 7 german units and their pre winter values ranged between 65 and 78

When winter kicked the values reduced to 42 - 55

Russian values dropped between 6 - 7

Hold on, I did not record the turn winter started but I think it was January 1942, could this be it? the game engine thinks it is the 1942 winter because the calendar date is 1942?

also i think the first test was pre patch.

Dave

The game checks how many winters have passed, so late 1941 and early 1942 is the same winter hence the same penalty.

Speaking from the Axis position on Russian Winters, I love what the patch has done to the Russian response in 1941 and 42'. Pre-patch, the Russian hordes stacked up 10 corps deep by 1942 opposite my positions, while post patch has given me a fighting chance to break through during summer play, and race for the capital(s) prize. I note, the winters are equally restrictive to both sides maneuver, thus giving the Axis side the opportunity to wear the Russians down if units are positioned far enough forward before winter hits.

I think perhaps the winter of 1941 should be more severe for the Axis. Guderian noted that his tanks were practically immobilized for a period of time.

35% reduction is too small imo.

In the winter of 1941 it should be more like 60-70% reduction in effectiveness for the Axis; maybe 25% for the Soviets.

keep in mind if your units have 65% effectiveness and lose 35% they go to 30% effectiveness, so the drop can be that much as a % of where you begin - it is a linear drop, not a % drop.

vypuero wrote:keep in mind if your units have 65% effectiveness and lose 35% they go to 30% effectiveness, so the drop can be that much as a % of where you begin - it is a linear drop, not a % drop.

I see - that makes sense.

I wonder if it would help having a poll of players to test how effective their units are PRIOR to winter of 1941 in Russia.

They should indicate difficulty level, month in Russia, and the general effectiveness of their units before and during the winter.