Slitherine

When unit is landed?

As per below screenshots it looks like even when on land unit fights as if on landing craft - is it intended?

Btw. Air units are so powerful on land defense... Shouldn't their survivability be decreased when fighting with ground units? I learnt from Morris to use Polish fighter to block Axis assault in Poland in 1939. Sometimes it require even 3 attacks to destroy it!

My experience is that the actual damage inflicted against air units by ground units is significantly higher than the odds show. For the two attacks you highlighted above how many steps did the air unit actually lose? Typically, I'll see an armor corps knock off 6 to 7-steps against an air unit. Generally, attacks by two high efficiency ground units is enough to kill a 10-step air unit.

By the way, are you playing with the latest version (GSv2.10)?

Both knocked exactly along the odds: 4 and 3 steps. Even though ARM is 52 effeciency I think it is very low score. In critical situation it is the same as what is done when transports blocking naval movement. In this case air unit covered and defended land hex that ground units were unable to reach.

I think the main reason is that my units looks like still being in amphibious mode (ARM has 3 attack, INF only 1) even though they are on the ground.

Yes, this is recent version of 2.1.

This is idea for 2.2. Maybe air units should be overrun (destroyed) automatically when attacked by ground unit (except PARA/GAR) also when it land from the sea? They could inflict some damage but the result would always be destruction of air unit.

Air units can't retreat after a battle like ground units do but surely at least some would get away once they figured out how things were going so I don't think an air unit should be wiped out.

Samhain wrote:Air units can't retreat after a battle like ground units do but surely at least some would get away once they figured out how things were going so I don't think an air unit should be wiped out.

Good point. It would be nice if air units could retreat when attacked by ground units. You figure that unless the attacking ground unit was really weak, the air unit would almost always retreat.

joerock22 wrote:

Samhain wrote:Air units can't retreat after a battle like ground units do but surely at least some would get away once they figured out how things were going so I don't think an air unit should be wiped out.

Good point. It would be nice if air units could retreat when attacked by ground units. You figure that unless the attacking ground unit was really weak, the air unit would almost always retreat.

I am pretty sure I thougfht I had seen air units retreat from ground attack?

richardsd wrote:

joerock22 wrote:

Samhain wrote:Air units can't retreat after a battle like ground units do but surely at least some would get away once they figured out how things were going so I don't think an air unit should be wiped out.

Good point. It would be nice if air units could retreat when attacked by ground units. You figure that unless the attacking ground unit was really weak, the air unit would almost always retreat.

I am pretty sure I thougfht I had seen air units retreat from ground attack?

Me too. I'm not 100% sure; but I thought I've forced air units to retreat before.

rkr1958 wrote:
Good point. It would be nice if air units could retreat when attacked by ground units. You figure that unless the attacking ground unit was really weak, the air unit would almost always retreat.

Yes,it usually retreat,but it is up to the effective data& luck. Also it is easy to make it retreat by ground unit ,but it is not strong enough for the landing transport to achieve this .

CeaW has an limitation of just 1 unit per hex. That means air units can solely occupy a hex while in most games you can stack air units on-top of land units, e. g. Panzer Corps.

The actual air planes would always be accompanied by supporting troops at the airbases. So I think we should consider air units in GS as a unit with mostly airplanes, but also troops that can defend the airbase. E. g. the Luftwaffe had their own ground forces.

If the air unit is considered to have light defense ala a garrison then we can understand the air unit could take some time to be destroyed.

An alternative we could consider for GS v2.2 is that an air unit being attacked by a ground unit would always have to retreat after combat. Instead of retreating to an adjacent hex the remaining steps of the air unit would be sent to the force pool so it can be placed as a new depleted unit the following turn.

I think most airplanes would evacuate an airbase when enemy ground forces are threatening to capture the airbases. So most of the airplanes would escape.

Stauffenberg wrote:An alternative we could consider for GS v2.2 is that an air unit being attacked by a ground unit would always have to retreat after combat. Instead of retreating to an adjacent hex the remaining steps of the air unit would be sent to the force pool so it can be placed as a new depleted unit the following turn.

I like the idea.

Can you answer the main reason for this topic? Is it intended that unit that just landed amphibiously still fights as if it was on landing scrafts? It happens even if I land on unoccupied hex and want to attack units further on the land. See the 2 screenshots attached.

How is your Armor and INF being supplied? They do not have a surface unit adjacent and should show a red dot for supply. (ie OOS)

So they are out of supply when they attack, but are supplied for defense? That could explain the low attack values and or odds.

Stauffenberg wrote:
An alternative we could consider for GS v2.2 is that an air unit being attacked by a ground unit would always have to retreat after combat. Instead of retreating to an adjacent hex the remaining steps of the air unit would be sent to the force pool so it can be placed as a new depleted unit the following turn.

I think most airplanes would evacuate an airbase when enemy ground forces are threatening to capture the airbases. So most of the airplanes would escape.

I love this idea too .

pk867 wrote:How is your Armor and INF being supplied? They do not have a surface unit adjacent and should show a red dot for supply. (ie OOS)

So they are out of supply when they attack, but are supplied for defense? That could explain the low attack values and or odds.

They just landed from the landing crafts. Note that even though they are ashore their stats show landing craft's values. This is what I want to clarify as logically they should have normal combat stats.

They keep those values the turn when they land. They should go to their normal values with the impact of supply on the UK player's turn.

pk867 wrote:They keep those values the turn when they land. They should go to their normal values with the impact of supply on the UK player's turn.

From my perspective it is counter intuitive. If I land on empty hex I expect my unit to have normal stats (they have reduced effectiveness anyway).

You have to remember that it takes time to unload a organization that large and then organized into an effective force.

You are unloading a corps sized unit and it takes time (ie a turn) to be effective. Even if unopposed.

pk867 wrote:You have to remember that it takes time to unload a organization that large and then organized into an effective force.

You are unloading a corps sized unit and it takes time (ie a turn) to be effective. Even if unopposed.

This is why I experience effectiveness drop from e.g. 85 to 50, right? If I attack hex that is further in the land it is not logical to see my unit still in amphibious mode.

I think it is only picture of transport. In fact unit has its native stats. Transport would not have 4:0 odds against fighter, I am sure about it.