Slitherine

Am I missing something? It looks to me like you're better off disbanding most of your infantry and buying a bunch of Saharianas. The Saharian infantry you can switch them to have mostly the same stats as Bersaglieri except with 3spotting instead of 2, but can switch to the Sahariana recon unit with all the perks that entails. And to top it off it is therefore significantly cheaper than the other infantry options since you don't need to spend all the prestige on transport options! What's the downside? Seems like 2 pioneres for minefield duty plus as many of these boys as you want is better than any other combination of infantry.

I would argue the same about the Kradshutzen motorcycle unit.
With better soft attack, spotting, initiative and far superior movement without the added cost and vulnerabilities of a truck, its still much cheaper than a motorised infantry unit. I have to ask why would you buy regular wehrmacht anymore when these guys are available and were these motorcycle units this capable in combat ?
i thought they were employed as scouts

AgentTBC wrote:Am I missing something? It looks to me like you're better off disbanding most of your infantry and buying a bunch of Saharianas. The Saharian infantry you can switch them to have mostly the same stats as Bersaglieri except with 3spotting instead of 2, but can switch to the Sahariana recon unit with all the perks that entails. And to top it off it is therefore significantly cheaper than the other infantry options since you don't need to spend all the prestige on transport options! What's the downside? Seems like 2 pioneres for minefield duty plus as many of these boys as you want is better than any other combination of infantry.

They can't get upgraded.

soldier wrote:I would argue the same about the Kradshutzen motorcycle unit.
With better soft attack, spotting, initiative and far superior movement without the added cost and vulnerabilities of a truck, its still much cheaper than a motorised infantry unit. I have to ask why would you buy regular wehrmacht anymore when these guys are available and were these motorcycle units this capable in combat ?
i thought they were employed as scouts

The wehrmacht always lacked fuel, that's why most of the army was on foot, or towed by horses. The allies on the other hand drowned in fuel, and used motorized,mechanized transports more often. The Kradschutzen are strong at start of Barbarossa, but after other infantry gets upgraded to 43, and stronger armor appeares they aren't that good anymore.

The wehrmacht always lacked fuel, that's why most of the army was on foot, or towed by horses. The allies on the other hand drowned in fuel, and used motorized,mechanized transports more often. The Kradschutzen are strong at start of Barbarossa, but after other infantry gets upgraded to 43, and stronger armor appeares they aren't that good anymore.

The wehrmacht does'nt lack fuel in the game and there are no horses either ?
Also there are still 3 years of war until the 1943 upgrades and until then motorcycle troops have considerable advantages over the standard wehrmacht and are a lot cheaper and less vulnerable as they don't require transport.

krugec wrote: The wehrmacht always lacked fuel, that's why most of the army was on foot, or towed by horses.

There was no lack of fuel until the oil fields in Ploesti/Romania got lost.
The reason why at Barbarossa big part of the german army was still on feet/horse was simply due to the fact that the total industrial war mobilization has not taken place until mid 1943.
It was especially ordered by Hitler in 1940 to NOT drop the consumer goods production in favor for war production, he was massively concerned about the german population getting war weary as this in WWI had led to revolution and giving up a war which wasnt lost militarily...therefore the motorization of Wehmacht formations did not proceed as quick as it could have simply cause there was not enough arms/transport production capabilities.

AgentTBC wrote:Am I missing something? It looks to me like you're better off disbanding most of your infantry and buying a bunch of Saharianas. The Saharian infantry you can switch them to have mostly the same stats as Bersaglieri except with 3spotting instead of 2, but can switch to the Sahariana recon unit with all the perks that entails. And to top it off it is therefore significantly cheaper than the other infantry options since you don't need to spend all the prestige on transport options! What's the downside?

What happens to recon units?

They always get attacked.
They usually get destroyed.
It is much easier to keep a regular infantry or bersaglieri

I think you missed my point; The Sahariana are better at being a regular infantry unit than the regular infantry units! At least until the '43 upgrades.

Nah... you missed my point.

Those unit are on the point, looking for the enemy.

Every time you switch to use the vehicle you put your self in harms way.

Because of this... they are always attacked and most likely eliminated.

Very hard to bring up experience.

No experience = little value for the unit. Little value for fighting.

They are good for recon to look see what up ahead.

I think what AgentTBC means is that if you bought Sahariana units with the intention of using them primarily as infantry, they would perform better than any other available unit up to '43. Razz1's point is well taken, though: if you get too enthusiastic with the "recon" switch, they will be destroyed. I will try buying one "as infantry," treating "recon" mode as "truck mode," and see how it goes.

Exactly. Razz1, you're still thinking of them as recon. I'm saying that if you use them *as infantry* they are far better than the other infantry pre-43.

The point is that you don't put them on the point so they can get destroyed, you put them where you'd put infantry and use the Sahariana mode as a far superior truck. You keep talking about putting them in harms way, etc etc. I'm talking about NOT DOING THAT. Using them as infantry!

It just doesn't make sense that a recon unit is better infantry than infantry. They are cheaper, have better stats, and are far more versatile.

(robman: It is true that if you are too aggressive with the recon switch they'd get destroyed. They would, however, be harder to destroy if you did the same thing with a regular infantry truck.)

I don't really see the problem, we do want people to use new units after all.

A new unit has limited use and gives the player actual desire to use it. It's good, but it has its draw backs. It's Italian, can't upgrade it, outclassed by 43 infantry, completely outclassed by late German recons.

I'd be more concerned with the Brummbar and Maultier and similar units. These units are completely outclassed by units that actually show up before they do (StuH42 and Wurfrahmen40)

Fair enough. I suppose I figured that once the '43 infantry showed up you could just disband the Sahariana for prestige and buy '43 infantry and later German recon units. Prestige shouldn't be an issue later in campaigns unless something fundamental is changed in the game system.

Agent I hear what you are saying and you are correct.

I was giving you reasons not to buy too many as you requested.

Plus not being able to upgrade is another reason that this unit is unique and the player must choose wisely.

Kerensky wrote:I'd be more concerned with the Brummbar and Maultier and similar units. These units are completely outclassed by units that actually show up before they do (StuH42 and Wurfrahmen40)

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the Maultier. The Wurf 40 packs a more powerful punch, but it is SO vulnerable to air and ground attack. In the brief interlude between 1.10 and AK, I played a few scenarios in '43 with my Wurfs "downgraded" to Maultiers. They were able to stay in action almost continuously despite air and ground attack, at considerable less cost in reinforcements. Granted, the Maultiers do less damage, so I'm not sure how the math works out--but it's not a "slam dunk" either way.