Slitherine

Hi all

Last night I played a game where I pinned an opponents LH on their flank. My opponent then wheeled them as far as they could without coming out of the pinned zone. This wasn't their full move and also didn't enable them to line up.

Was this okay? I'm used to wheeling short because of being blocked by other BG's but not because of being pinned.

Cheers

Rob

Did he end further away?

I would say no as he wheeled on the closest point to the pinning BG.

Rob

To be legal it must end further away, turn in place, go directly forwards, or wheel to line up.

I have to disagree on one point, it says "wheel as far as possible" which is why blocking BG's can stop you wheeling the full amount. It's whether the pinned zone also gives you grounds to not wheel the full amount.

Rob

Robert241167 wrote:I have to disagree on one point, it says "wheel as far as possible" which is why blocking BG's can stop you wheeling the full amount. It's whether the pinned zone also gives you grounds to not wheel the full amount.

Rob

It doesn't just say wheel as far as possible does it Rob

Hi Phil, just got home.

It says "or wheel as far as it can towards such a position", obviously staying in the restricted area stops it going any further.

Rob

Robert241167 wrote:Hi all

Last night I played a game where I pinned an opponents LH on their flank. My opponent then wheeled them as far as they could without coming out of the pinned zone. This wasn't their full move and also didn't enable them to line up.

Was this okay? I'm used to wheeling short because of being blocked by other BG's but not because of being pinned.

Cheers

Rob

No, sounds like your opponent did not make a legal move. P74 "...Wheel towards that enemy battle group until its front is parallel to the enemy front, or wheel as far as it can towards such a position..." From what you have said your opponent's BG did not wheel as far as it could towards a parallel position.

Sounds like it was wheeling away

I was the opponent.

The BG was not wheeling away.

"...Wheel towards that enemy battle group until its front is parallel to the enemy front, or wheel as far as it can towards such a position..." From what you have said your opponent's BG did not wheel as far as it could towards a parallel position.

The BG did wheel as far as it could to line up, but could not line up because if it did it would have moved outside the restricted area.

So Rob's original question still stands.

Is staying within the restricted area an acceptable reason for "wheeling as far as possible" to line up, but not actually lining up?

I'm sure a picture would help, but I don't have the time to make one and work out how to post it.

prb4 wrote:I was the opponent.

The BG was not wheeling away.

"...Wheel towards that enemy battle group until its front is parallel to the enemy front, or wheel as far as it can towards such a position..." From what you have said your opponent's BG did not wheel as far as it could towards a parallel position.

The BG did wheel as far as it could to line up, but could not line up because if it did it would have moved outside the restricted area.

So Rob's original question still stands.

Is staying within the restricted area an acceptable reason for "wheeling as far as possible" to line up, but not actually lining up?

I'm sure a picture would help, but I don't have the time to make one and work out how to post it.

I can see how this situation could arise and it seems to be a bit of a wheeze. The RAW only require that the pinned BG start within the restricted area of the enemy. It is clearly permissable to end the move outside the RA however this is achieved (e.g. by moving further away or by wheeling to become parrallel).

>The RAW only require that the pinned BG start within the restricted area of the enemy.

Seems a funny thing to say, a bit arse-about-face. Surely what the rules actually say is that if it starts within a restricted zone, a BG is "pinned"!

Don't they also say quite clearly that a pinned BG *must* end at least partly in front of the pinning BG? No matter what other movement is made, subject to the further restrictions in the bullet points?

I's have to look at the rules to be sure, but I think the "end in front" comes first and is presented as an absolute requirement, whereas the other things tell you stuff that you might be able to do subject to various restrictions. Therefore none of them allow you to end not directly in front.

Which on the one hand would seem like a sensible approach - why should that BG be able to wheel around in such a way that it might get out of being pinned, and also possible end up nicely on your flank?

But on the other hand, if it is restricted from wheeling fully to face because you pin the rear part of its flank edge rather than any part of ots front edge, it may have fewer options for getting out of trouble, thus getting back to the realm of critical geometry and gamey manouevres. It could turn 90 degrees...unless its undrilled battle foot and I'm rolling the dice

You are quite right. There is a requirement on page 74 that regardless of which movement is selected by the pinned BG it , "must end its move at least partly in front of the enemy battle group..." albeit that it can be no longer pinned.

So, no, they can't wheel in such a way as to be no longer in front of the pinning BG.

prb4 wrote:The BG did wheel as far as it could to line up, but could not line up because if it did it would have moved outside the restricted area.

Since it was lights it could have turned and wheeled, so it did not wheel as far as it could towards lining up, but it wheeled as far as it could away.

philqw78 wrote:

prb4 wrote:The BG did wheel as far as it could to line up, but could not line up because if it did it would have moved outside the restricted area.

Since it was lights it could have turned and wheeled, so it did not wheel as far as it could towards lining up, but it wheeled as far as it could away.

The good book doesn't say they have to turn if they don't want to. They only have to wheel as far forward as possible until parallel and also staying partially in front of the enemy BG. He is required to stop the wheel at the point the move would take the BG entirely out of the front of the enemy BG (2nd bullet page 74). So the move was correct as described:

The BG was not wheeling away.
The BG did wheel as far as it could to line up, but could not line up because if it did it would have moved outside the restricted area.
So Rob's original question still stands.
Is staying within the restricted area an acceptable reason for "wheeling as far as possible" to line up, but not actually lining up?

bbotus wrote:They only have to wheel as far forward as possible

They have to wheel towards.

philqw78 wrote:

bbotus wrote:They only have to wheel as far forward as possible

They have to wheel towards.

While this is still an interesting question to answer, I have since realised that it wasn't important in our game.

The LH could have simply double wheeled. A fraction away from the enemy and then back to (more or less) the same position that they were put into on the night.
This move would have been legal because the BG would have made a move that ended further away.