Slitherine

ZOC is sth which I have never understood properly and its relation to the supply level is sth that completely eludes me. How does it work? When I look at the movement value of my ARMs/MECHs/whatever, they show values like 5-6, but in practice they can often move just 1-3 hexes. 0-1 supply means 1 movement, regardless of the base movement value, right? I guess that 3 supply allows units to move normally. How about 2 supply? How can I calculate what my "real" movement value is if enemy units are nearby?

Cybvep wrote:ZOC is sth which I have never understood properly and its relation to the supply level is sth that completely eludes me. How does it work? When I look at the movement value of my ARMs/MECHs/whatever, they show values like 5-6, but in practice they can often move just 1-3 hexes. 0-1 supply means 1 movement, regardless of the base movement value, right? I guess that 3 supply allows units to move normally. How about 2 supply? How can I calculate what my "real" movement value is if enemy units are nearby?

I sometimes still struggle with whether or not a unit can move from x to y when zoc's and terrain are involved.

Supply level does effect how far you can move. You can click on your unit before moving to see how many movement points it has. Now, if you're adjacent to an enemy unit and move directly from there to a hex adjacent to an enemy unit (could be the same enemy unit) that costs you 3 ADDITIONAL MP's. That is, this is in addition to moving the 1 hex plus terrain and weather costs. You CANNOT make this move if you don't have enough MP's. Garrisons can NEVER move adjacent from one hex to another that are both adjacent to an enemy unit.

Moving to a hex adjacent to 2 enemy units costs you an additional 3 MP's. If the hex that the you starts from is NOT adjacent to enemy unit then it can make this move even if it were to exceed its total MP's. For example, garrisons can make this move even though the cost for clear terrain and fair weather would be 4 MP's. However; this ability to exceed MP's only applies to hexes adjacent to where the unit starts.

I know it's confusion and I still make mistakes. But; I've generally learned through experience what moves a unit can make. The upside is that the game engine handles all this for you so there's no interpretation or constantly consulting a rulebook to make moves. The downside is that you will make mistakes so of which will occasionally be costly. Just like in real life.

Supply defines how many MPs your unit will have. E.g. MECHs and ARMs with supply 1 will have 2 MPs. There is a table in manual which gives MPs based on unit type and its supply.

Different thing is weather which increases cost of entering a hex. E.g. in winter a clear hex cost 2 MPs to enter (base cost in fair weather is 1). Again there is a table in manual providing the cost of different terrain in different weather.

Btw. Moving in enemy ZoC cost +2 MPs. Three different situations when it applies are in the manual.

rkr1958 wrote:

Cybvep wrote: Garrisons can NEVER move adjacent from one hex to another that are both adjacent to an enemy unit.

That is not entirely correct, i have a situation that a gar moves in Zoc to another hex also in Zoc of the same unit. Didn´t think this was possible either, but i experienced the hard way.

Crazygunner1 wrote:

rkr1958 wrote:

Cybvep wrote: Garrisons can NEVER move adjacent from one hex to another that are both adjacent to an enemy unit.

That is not entirely correct, i have a situation that a gar moves in Zoc to another hex also in Zoc of the same unit. Didn´t think this was possible either, but i experienced the hard way.

The only way I know that to be possible is if a leader is attached to the garrison, which would increase it's movement by 1. Otherwise; I don't think that's possible ... but if you have an example where that occurred I'm really interested in what conditions this happened.

Before my turn, as you can see by the arrow near Novograd, no leader attached, forest terrain, fair weather.

IMO is when there are two enemy units you incur the +2 MP increase.

pk867 wrote:IMO is when there are two enemy units you incur the +2 MP increase.

So one unit doesn't "activate" ZOC?

Crazygunner1 wrote:Before my turn, as you can see by the arrow near Novograd, no leader attached, forest terrain, fair weather.

I see. Technically the garrison isn't moving directly from a hex adjacent to an enemy unit directly to another hex also adjacent to an enemy unit. Since he has 2 MP's he first moves to the hex southeast of Novograd (not adjacent to the unit) and then uses his 2nd MP to move back adjacent to the unit. Since the hex is only adjacent to one enemy unit he does not incur a 2 MP penalty.

Cybvep wrote:

pk867 wrote:IMO is when there are two enemy units you incur the +2 MP increase.

So one unit doesn't "activate" ZOC?

No matter what kind of unit, if tank or mech they all have the same type of Zoc value?

Ok, so if there was any kind of unit 2 hexes south of the gar in same conditions the Gar could not move into the city?

Interesting - maybe the river negates ZoC? The Gar should not be able to move into the city otherwise.

Can somebody explain ZOC rules in detail?

Cybvep wrote:Can somebody explain ZOC rules in detail?

Scroll up and you will find a good explenation

Kragdob wrote:Btw. Moving in enemy ZoC cost +2 MPs. Three different situations when it applies are in the manual.

pk867 also pointed this out.

And that is my understanding as well. It is +2 MP's for moving within ZOC or otherwise adjacent to 2 enemy units (not +3 MP's). Thus, an armour unit can move twice within enemy ZOC in clear terrain with full supply. That would be 1(base)+2(move within ZOC penalty)=3 MP's per hex times 2 hexes, for a total of 6 MP's. I don't believe the other reference above to it being a +3 MP's penalty is correct.

rkr1958 wrote:

Crazygunner1 wrote:Before my turn, as you can see by the arrow near Novograd, no leader attached, forest terrain, fair weather.

I see. Technically the garrison isn't moving directly from a hex adjacent to an enemy unit directly to another hex also adjacent to an enemy unit. Since he has 2 MP's he first moves to the hex southeast of Novograd (not adjacent to the unit) and then uses his 2nd MP to move back adjacent to the unit. Since the hex is only adjacent to one enemy unit he does not incur a 2 MP penalty.

This looks right to me. The funny thing is that it doesn't look like the Russian garrison actually captured the hex that it moved through to get to Novgorod.

ncali wrote:This looks right to me. The funny thing is that it doesn't look like the Russian garrison actually captured the hex that it moved through to get to Novgorod.

Yeah, the game engine takes a shortcut. If it determines that a move is legal by a given route, I think it actually moves to the destination via the shortest route independent of ZOC's; but never to include enemy units. I know, I know ... but this has been the way it's been programmed from the very start and to "fix" it now could, and probably would, have very serious unintended consequences.

Technically the garrison isn't moving directly from a hex adjacent to an enemy unit directly to another hex also adjacent to an enemy unit.

I don't get it - why not? The corps was adjacent both to Novogrod and Novogrod's eastern border hex.

Cybvep wrote:

Technically the garrison isn't moving directly from a hex adjacent to an enemy unit directly to another hex also adjacent to an enemy unit.

I don't get it - why not? The corps was adjacent both to Novogrod and Novogrod's eastern border hex.

To make a legal move the garrison first had to move to the hex directly south and then to Novogrod (2 MP's total). It couldn't move directly from the hex it was in to Novogrod because that move would require 1 MP + 2 MP penalty for moving in a ZOC (or 3 MP's total).

So where was GAR located, exactly?