Slitherine

Hello All!

Thought I'd give a quick overview of what's in this beta and what's not, and what to watch out.

The campaign coming with beta 1 build is 100% complete, and unless we missed some nasty bug, should be playable end to end. But of course, the balance is not final and will be tweaked a lot in the course of the beta. We are very much interested in any feedback on the new campaign. What do you think about the maps - what could be improved there? How does the scenario flow work for you? What could be improved in popup messages department? Are the victory conditions clear, and what other interesting things we could add? How the campaign structure can be improved? Any opinions are welcome.

Africa theatre has some special properties associated with it. Not all units available in Europe are available in Africa, and vice versa. Let us know if any units which should be available in Africa are not available there, or if some units must be removed from Africa theatre. Movement tables can now use fractional movement costs, and africa terrain types make use of this feature. Let us know if our movement tables for any types are not adequate and can be improved. In desert hexes units suffer a 50% penalty to supply. Does this value work for you or not? How can we improve it?

AK contains a lot of new art and graphics. Let us know what you think about new graphics (desert tiles, desert camo units etc.)? We've got a bunch of new units in the game. Watch out for them. If there is any issue, either in their stats or in their graphics/animations, let us know.

The multiplayer maps are not included in beta 1 yet, hopefully they arrive in beta 2.

There were a lot of internal changes in the engine, and we need to know how it works. Are there any issues introduced? For modders: Does the game and the editor correctly load and play your custom scenarios and mods? Please check this very thoroughly, because we cannot possibly check all mods on our end (some of them are not even available anywhere). We want to make sure nothing breaks when AK is out, and existing games are updated to new engine too. If you find any issue, send the problematic scenario to me (rudankort@rsdn.ru). Same is true about the editor. We have included a number of new features there, but their use in stock AK is limited by our own needs, and does not cover all possible use cases. So I suggest that all people interested in creating custom scenarios check them and report back any issues and suggestions how these features can be improved.

Here is a quick list of main changes in the Editor.
- More advanced scripting. Now it is possible to trigger not only single actions but also scripts which can consist of several actions. Each script can run one or several times, and also skip a few runs before it gets executed. Also, it is now possible to run scripts not only at the end of a turn, but immediately when the required condition is met (e. g. you capture a city - this triggers an event). There are new types of actions (display message, center on hex, mark or unmerk certain hex as victory objective) and conditions. Setting and checking tags allow scripts to exchange information - a certain trigger could depend on one or several scripts running prior to its execution etc.
- A number of new AI orders. It is possible to give the units to move to a certain hex via a given trajectory, or to move to one of several hexes randomly; patrol area in different ways, or disembark on one of several given hexes randomly. BTW, the AI should now land paratroopers even without special order given, but Disembark order allows to drop at a specific location (e. g. far behind the line where no VHs are present), where the AI would not go on its own. Also, the AI action allows to assign all these new AI orders based on a certain trigger.
- Unit placement randomization. Both preplaced units and reinforcements can now appear at random location - within a given radius from their original hex, or in a given zone. This allows to do pretty tricky randomizations: for example, reinforcements could come from any location on the border of the map.
- Heroes configuration. Now it is possible to assign any heroes to any units on the map.
- Exit zones. Available via Special Hexes layer, separately for Axis and Allies. A unit which enters such a hex is removed from the map and is placed in Reserve. It is also possible to analyze units in reserve using map condition with "Where" set to "Reserve".
- It is now possible to set max strength on a per-unit individual basis.
- It is now possible to have several different transports of the same type in the same scenario (e. g. normal air transports and gliders at the same time).
- Generate Tiles command no longer overwrites any tiles set manually by the designer. It is possible to generate tiles on a per-layer basis.
- It is possible to change unit type without losing its stats - just select new type and click on the unit twice (first click will select the unit, second will change the type).
- Theatre setting. Any scenario can be set in Europe or Africa. Depending on theatre setting the units will use appropriate camouflage.
- Share flags setting. If set, units of any nation can be purchased next to flags belonging to allied nations (e. g. german units near italian falgs if germany and italy belong to the same side).

Brummbar facing to the LEFT while firing has an animation error, looks like Y axis is set too low.

Russian audio localization for the base campaign is awesome.

I'll edit this post for anything new that I find and to help organize things other people find.

#1: Brummbar firing to the left has an animation error.
#2: Upgrading towed unit with transport attached to self propelled unit requires manual selection of no transport option.
#3: There are no family discount upgrades for the Italian units, creating a prestige unfriendly upgrading environment.
#4: Italian units cannot load into new air transports (useable transports column in equipment.pzdat is empty for all nations except Germany)
#5: Several new aircraft have graphical errors.
http://i.imgur.com/j05Yq.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/SYPfE.jpg

Rudankort wrote:Hello All!

Let us know if our movement tables for any types are not adequate and can be improved. In desert hexes units suffer a 50% penalty to supply. Does this value work for you or not? How can we improve it?

I think in addition, desert hexes should consume twice the fuel, like frozen hexes. Supply was a huge problem in Afrika. More often than not tanks sat idle for lack of fuel.

Rudankort wrote:There were a lot of internal changes in the engine, and we need to know how it works. Are there any issues introduced? For modders: Does the game and the editor correctly load and play your custom scenarios and mods? Please check this very thoroughly, because we cannot possibly check all mods on our end (some of them are not even available anywhere). We want to make sure nothing breaks when AK is out, and existing games are updated to new engine too. If you find any issue, send the problematic scenario to me (rudankort@rsdn.ru). Same is true about the editor. We have included a number of new features there, but their use in stock AK is limited by our own needs, and does not cover all possible use cases. So I suggest that all people interested in creating custom scenarios check them and report back any issues and suggestions how these features can be improved.

There is no way to play a custom campaign in the AK beta. That's how I will test my Maelstrom campaign, for example. Am I missing something or is this for a future beta?

The hover-over text for the AI behaviour needs to be updated.

Can we get a thorough description of what each AI state is intended to work as, please?

For example, good to see the 25lbr I set up did not mount into its transport any more but sadly, neither did it support the infantry in their attacks. It was set to Default and then Attacker - both had the same effect.

I've had a look through my German WWII vehicle bible (Chamberlain&Doyle - Encyclopedia of German Tanks of World War Two - highly recommended), and have a few comments to the units:

- The book specifically mentions Pz IAs being converted to flame-thrower tanks before the assault on Tobruk. There is even a picture (it looks like a standard PzIA, with a flame projector where the MGs would be), might be something to add in as an alternative to the PzII flam.
- Pz II Flamm should be available in the main campaign as well, they are listed as first seeing service in Russia in June 1941.
- I'm not sure if the PzIIF should be listed as a recon unit, it doesn't differ in deployment from earlier PzII marks according to the book. PzIIL (Luchs) is listed as a specialized recon machine, so that is correct.
- Good to see the sIG33 2, I had been missing that from Panzer General II. The selection only to put it in Afrika Corps is correct, it was only deployed there.
- On the subject of flamethrower tanks, it seems like there was a Flamm version of the PzIII also. This was not used in Africa however, originating on the East Front after Stalingrad (based on PzIIIM).
- The new Brummbärs should be available in the main campaign as well, listed as being used both in the East, in the West and in Italy.
- In line with the Brummbär, you might want to add the Sturmmörser Tiger as well; an assault mortar (18 units coverted in late 1944, versus 10 sIG33 2s converted). Doesn't belong in Africa, however.
- Not Africa-related, but I think the attack values of the Jagdtiger should be modified; it doesn't make sense that it is weaker than the 88-armed vehicles and also weaker than the Maus (same 128mm gun).

Great job adding a lot of new units in, however! Nice to be able to buy core Italian units as well, but I think there should be a possibility to upgrade within vehicle families for reduced cost here also.

Karl

In desert hexes units suffer a 50% penalty to supply. Does this value work for you or not? How can we improve it?

I am under the impression that most of the supply issues had a more to do with a bad to non-existant road infrastructure, which was easily interdicted by enemy air in conjunction with low levels of supply being delivered to ports and the lack of usable port facilities close to the action (causing long, vulnerable supply lines) than anything else.

My solution would be a way to incorporate a "supply hex" set-up where if you are X number of movement points away from such a hex your supply diminishes at twice the normal rate (as opposed to automaticly halved)?

If this will be the case, I feel there should be a random chance of enemy "raid effects" (reduction?) on these supply hexes, or if successfuly interdicted by air for a 10-20%+\- reduction or other effect that turn??? Also, if a supply hex set-up is adopted, that they can be "captured" for partial use of those facilities by the capturing side? The German was very interested in capturing supplies in the historical campaigns, and I feel that the "capturing supplies" motovation would enhance the game, not to mention its' historical veracity.

Few observations that I have about Afrika Korps:

- I should be able to upgrade towed tank destroyers to self-propelled TDs directly, this is a bug (and there is a workaround that is well posted) that I noticed when I wanted to upgrade my PAk 37 "doorknockers" to a Panzerjaeger Ib.

- My experience in several games is that the estimated casualties and the actual casualties are way off, in that the estimate is about what I would expect, but the outcome is half or worse. It just seems that the estimates and outcomes are radically different and far more often than would be attributable to chance.

- The AI does something very strange in both runs a Tobruk that I have made, the 25-pounder battery embuses and goes ahead of the British lines in the south (near the German-flagged objective). Artillery is very, very weak and worse so in trucks and it cannot capture an objective anyhow, so I am thinking, "Huh?" That this happened exactly the same way, twice, in two different games says to me something is off.

- The German halftrack sdkfz 7 is a welcome addition to the game, but seems unbalanced in terms of points. It has no armor, no attack or defense capability, and other than a fuel rating of 80 versus 70 for the sdkfz 251, there is no reason to purchase them for 100 prestige points. Suggest a balancing of 70 points or so. The player gets halftrack mobility in the desert, but a real risk of being picked off by aircraft or SAS Jeeps...

- Motorcycle Infantry are a great addition to the game, but I am confused about the addition of organic trucks or halftacks to the unit. This also has been posted often, but it still seems very, very odd.

- The graphics for the battlefield feel unfinished. The escarpments especially and the Tobruk scenario seem very amateurish in presentation (I know the graphics are not finalized, but I noticed this immediately when I played the game).

I actually call it a feature rather than a bug but the ability to refit, resupply recons that have moved is still in AK. It's like in PG2 so I really like it but it may not be as designed: if you move a recon and then undo its move you can rearm, refit it no matter how many movement phases it has moved. e.g. Move 2 hexes, move 1 hex, undo - can refit.

Third scenario note:

I conquered all hexes and destroyed all enemy ground forces and the scenario did not end until time ran out (Decisive Victory). I think that the scenario needs to do a secondary check for enemy ground forces existing or not. I know that they had a Hurricane fighter out circling in the deep desert, but that was all that remained of the British force.

Rudankort wrote: - A number of new AI orders. It is possible to give the units to move to a certain hex via a given trajectory, or to move to one of several hexes randomly; patrol area in different ways, or disembark on one of several given hexes randomly. BTW, the AI should now land paratroopers even without special order given, but Disembark order allows to drop at a specific location (e. g. far behind the line where no VHs are present), where the AI would not go on its own. Also, the AI action allows to assign all these new AI orders based on a certain trigger.

I played around with the editor a while and dearly miss the ability to order single AI units to attack specified hexes (not moving to a zone) > action only be carried out when hex is occupied by enemy unit or containing enemy flag...
moving to a zone is all fine but for precise scripting "attack hex 45/23" would be invaluable...allowing for bomber raids..airborne attacks..shore bombardment..constant harrassment of a certain point of a front...well...possible use would be literally endless for SP scenarios design..
Another little checkbox Attack Hex XXX/XXX in the Unit Parameters window would do wonders...
Is this still feasible ? Iam confident all custom designers would love tho have this

chris10 wrote:I played around with the editor a while and dearly miss the ability to order single AI units to attack specified hexes (not moving to a zone) > action only be carried out when hex is occupied by enemy unit or containing enemy flag...
moving to a zone is all fine but for precise scripting "attack hex 45/23" would be invaluable...allowing for bomber raids..airborne attacks..shore bombardment..constant harrassment of a certain point of a front...well...possible use would be literally endless for SP scenarios design..
Another little checkbox Attack Hex XXX/XXX in the Unit Parameters window would do wonders...
Is this still feasible ? Iam confident all custom designers would love tho have this

At this point bringing the AK to release obviously has priority over any new stuff, so no promises. Still, if you could detail your request this could be a start. I'm not sure yet how your suggestion is different from move order, because after arriving at its destination the unit will attack whatever it finds there. Opinions and suggestions from other modders would help too.

Rudankort wrote: At this point bringing the AK to release obviously has priority over any new stuff, so no promises. Still, if you could detail your request this could be a start. I'm not sure yet how your suggestion is different from move order, because after arriving at its destination the unit will attack whatever it finds there. Opinions and suggestions from other modders would help too.

From what I have seen you can only order a unit to move to a zone but not to a hex which is indeed a huge difference as there are only 32 zones available but even in smaller maps there are thousands of hexes so the difference is obvious...on the other hand there are only 32 zones available and on a bigger map with lots of things 32 trigger zones may be far from being enough when triggers are needed for victory hexes,counteroffenses,landing zones,taking specific objectives and so on...so removing the zone restriction by adding attack hex XXX/XXX would open for infinite amount of actions and additional does not requiere adding stuff to the map nor the need to specifiy a trigger cause the hex cooridinates are already known to the AI. Iam not requesting to remove "move to zone" cause it has its usage but instead add "attack hex" which in fact is a function which derivates from an already existing one (move to zone)...I add a screeny with what I mean



Another thing I noticed in the Unit Parameters is that AI Zone 1 always shows and cant be unchecked or left in blank so that no zone shows...I have the bad feeling this always interferes with other orders...it would be less confusing if it could be unchecked so to be sure zones are ignored

chris10 wrote: From what I have seen you can only order a unit to move to a zone but not to a hex which is indeed a huge difference as there are only 32 zones available but even in smaller maps there are thousands of hexes so the difference is obvious...on the other hand there are only 32 zones available and on a bigger map with lots of things 32 trigger zones may be far from being enough when triggers are needed for victory hexes,counteroffenses,landing zones,taking specific objectives and so on...so removing the zone restriction by adding attack hex XXX/XXX would open for infinite amount of actions and additional does not requiere adding stuff to the map cause the hex cooridinates are already known to the AI. Iam not requesting to remove "move to zone" cause iot has its usage but instead add "attack hex" which in fact is a function which derivates from an already existing one (move to zone)...I add a screeny with what I mean

OK, I understand why setting a hex instead of a zone might help, but I still don't understand how "Attack" will be different from "Move". What difference of behavior exactly is expected?

chris10 wrote: Another thing I noticed in the Unit Parameters is that AI Zone 1 always shows and cant be unchecked so that no zone shows...I have the bad feeling this always interferes with other orders...it would be less confusing if it could be unchecked so to be sure zones are ignored

I don't see a big problem, because the zones ARE ignored in case they are not needed - but ok, point taken.

Rudankort wrote: I don't see a big problem, because the zones ARE ignored in case they are not needed - but ok, point taken.

Oh..yeah..its not necessarily attack but could be...as in the screeny I could have taken another option like patrol, defend, dismebark ...
I didnt meant to tie the going to a specific hex cooridinate action to attack only but rather freely combine it with the available options whereas
a target hex should override all behavior settings until arrival
Example:
spawn unit in 78/80 on turn 4 > set behavior hold position (fire) > set target hex 102/98 > target hex overrides hold position fire until arrive on target hex then carry out behavior hold position (fire)
> the usefulness of this in combination with other scripts and orders is incredibly huge

...all other options are self explanatory when combining with a target hex..defend hex..attack hex..disembark on hex and so on...

does that make any sense ?

Yes, I see what you mean now.

To be able to direct specific units to move to specific hexes would be very useful IMO. Zones can be used for this but, as Chris points out, there are 'only' 32 zones. Larger maps will struggle with that.

It is more useful (for me, at least) to be able to send groups of units, tied by a tag or name string, to a destination. I have asked for this in another thread, too.
e.g. All of "2SS Pz" units to move to zone xx when a trigger fires.

I am with Chris and El Condero on this one.
Directing units to specific hexes would be a very good thing for scenario designers.

So why are we limiting zones?

Just increase them to 200

Razz1 wrote:So why are we limiting zones?

Just increase them to 200

You sure this is the right topic for zones ?
and naaaahhh..200 zones are not necessary...imagine click on zones and the pop up with 200 zones come up...scroll..scroll...scroll...at the end you didnt remember what zones you already used...not very user friendly

and sending units to a specific hex combiend with the random function or within x hexes is way more powerful and does not requiere map editing and zone bugging...
the 32 zones can now be used for real triggers and the target hexes for giving unit orders...

Maybe you (or another individual with access) want to consider to move your and my post over here where it seems to belong
viewtopic.php?f=148&t=35578&p=337352#p337352