Slitherine

Beer and Pretzels? BEER AND PRETZELS? Not only is that a somewhat queer combination, it's also a combination that I've yet to experiment with.
I'm getting sick and tired of seeing this "Beer and Pretzels" moniker applied to anything that's regarded as a 'game' rather than a 'verisimulation'.

There's an incredible elitist divide between the 'grognards' and the 'casuals' (or should that be 'the people with absolutely no life to speak of' versus the people with 'a little bit more life to speak of'?) The fact of the matter is, that more people deride games such as Panzer Corps and even Combat Mission as opposed to TOAW and WitE. It's the digital equivelent of comparing ASL to Combat Commander and/or Conflict of Heroes.

"But...BUT PANZER CORPS IS JUST A PUZZLE GAME!!!111LOL1111SHIFT+1" Here's some news for ya "buddy", absolutely every "war game" ever concieved is a "puzzle game" and that includes Chess.

What I'm saying is just stop it with the "Beer and Pretzels" argument, if you can't enjoy a beer and a pretzel or two over a wargame then it's less of a game and more of a "vocation"

Huh? A little context would make this just a but more than a really odd rant........

VPaulus wrote:Please don't feed the troll.

Errr, why is complimenting Panzer Corps and attacking it's detractors considering "trolling"? Personally, I agree with the OP...Panzer Corps is a great deal of fun even if it's not as "deep" as those insanely complicated Gary Grigsby games.

I've never been a big fan of "Beer and Pretzels" either, and I have no idea why casual wargames are referred to as "Beer and Pretzels" games. Are games like "War in the Pacific" so advanced that drinking beer while playing them is verbotten?

Well said, I think for a while war games kinda went a bit insane but I am glad that games like Panzer Corps are leading them back in the right direction.

Apollo wrote:

VPaulus wrote:Please don't feed the troll.

Errr, why is complimenting Panzer Corps and attacking it's detractors considering "trolling"? Personally, I agree with the OP...Panzer Corps is a great deal of fun even if it's not as "deep" as those insanely complicated Gary Grigsby games.

My bad.
You're right. I should have read more carefully.
Bad day.
My apologies.

I think there should be a "Beer And Pretzel" edition of the game, coming with free beer of course. And pretzels

bebro wrote:I think there should be a "Beer And Pretzel" edition of the game, coming with free beer of course. And pretzels

Indeed. A beer and pretzels edition:

morge4 wrote:

Super Bock, it's my favorite beer.

This forum was certainly lacking a beer and ...pretzels thread

Oh! So THAT's what pretzels are

LOL.

There are indeed factions and different kinds of wargamers. The "gamers" and the "war"... I don't want to call them "gamers" anymore. It's like he described, both factions don't get along with each other.

It's a bit like Heavy Metal, as soon as a Wargame has mass success it gets picked on by the die hards of said genre, just like Heavy Metal becomes "commercial trash" if more than a few people like it. At least in the eyes of the "hardcore".

I think when they say Beer & pretzels they mean beer, and an easier game might be less effected while intoxicated.
I'll drink while I play anything. I don't care as long as I'm having fun.
The Beer & Pretzels line is overused.

VPaulus wrote:Super Bock, it's my favorite beer.

You can have the Super Bock, I'll settle for the pretzels that are next to it.

I always thought the reference was from boardgames. A bunch of friends gathering for a casual evening of wargaming with Beer and Pretzels like Axis & Allies or the Avalon Hill Boardgames.

regret wrote:I always thought the reference was from boardgames. A bunch of friends gathering for a casual evening of wargaming with Beer and Pretzels like Axis & Allies or the Avalon Hill Boardgames.

It is from the world of boardgames. The term predates my involvement with hex and counter games (about 35 years and counting). It was meant to indicate a game that was low complexity, short(er) playing time, easy to teach, and FUN. Axis & Allies would qualify and some of the AH catalog would also (not Advanced 3rd Reich or ASL).

To me, calling Panzer Corp a beer and pretzels game isn't derogatory. It's not hard to learn (but hard to master), each scenario doesn't take hours and it's a lot of fun. Fits the criteria.

I didn't see any beer....

homemade Bavarian Breakfest:



or means this?

DownriverRick wrote:

regret wrote:I always thought the reference was from boardgames. A bunch of friends gathering for a casual evening of wargaming with Beer and Pretzels like Axis & Allies or the Avalon Hill Boardgames.

It is from the world of boardgames. The term predates my involvement with hex and counter games (about 35 years and counting). It was meant to indicate a game that was low complexity, short(er) playing time, easy to teach, and FUN. Axis & Allies would qualify and some of the AH catalog would also (not Advanced 3rd Reich or ASL).

To me, calling Panzer Corp a beer and pretzels game isn't derogatory. It's not hard to learn (but hard to master), each scenario doesn't take hours and it's a lot of fun. Fits the criteria.

Yes, it very much is a old term from the Avalon Hill Days, just before SPI come to formation. Back then we only had Gettysburg, Stalingrad and a few others. That was when I started about 48 years ago, crap I am 60 now . But it was then, a term that meant "fun evening" though I was too young to drink. As I got older and games got more complex, the last thing you wanted to do was drink whilst pouring over the Monster Gamer ear of SPI and by the time GDW Completed Europa beer was the last thing on our minds.

To call Panzer Corps, beer and pretzel game now, in my mind, means a good fun game that is worth a few hours a night. I like Panzer Corps, it is a good set of games, I also like WITE but they are two different animals. So, I think for us old timers, it simply means fun, you younger guys (god I hate saying that!) who may take it as a slight to your intelligence by saying "Aw it's a beer and pretzel game," --meaning not serious enough to be taken seriously. Keep in mind though that a vast amount of work goes into the algorithms just to get the the graphics to run smoothly, pumping out the table variables in combat is more than just a 1D6 roll. These "new fangled" computer games are exactly what we wanted oh so many years ago when there was no one available to sit across the table from and psyche out. I play these games because all my Wargamer friends are dead, and I appreciate the programmers who sit down to make an opponent come to life, so I can play again.

I am a Wargamer, I have been for 48 years, I was raised on the hex fields of Europe and the Pacific, I will die a Wargamer and a historian. I am not a gamer unless I am playing WoW killing Murlocs, I hate those little bastards.

I am a Wargamer, I have been for 48 years, I was raised on the hex fields of Europe and the Pacific, I will die a Wargamer and a historian.

I salute you Sir and drink to that!

As the Welsh say: Iechyd da!