Slitherine

in a recent game our opponents charged with lh against lf, they evaded and moved past a kn battle group if the lh had charged straight on they would have hit the kn so they wanted to wheel in the charge and avoid the kn bg, at the start of the move there was a mm gap between the lh and lf and in a previous game the same opponents had played the same trick on us preventing a wheel at the start of a charge,
an umpire was called and he said they could not wheel and stopped one inch away from the kn bg
in the rules it says you can wheel anytime during the charge as long as you hit with at least the same amount of bases if you had not wheeled, as i read it evades move first so when the charge occurs there is room to wheel at the very start of the charge
i can see how this trick can work in the maneuver phase but my view is it does not work in the charge phase or am i missing something

While it's true that evaders move first, from memory the wheel calculation is done as if the evaders had stood to receive the charge. So in your example the chargers' wheel would be constrained by the distance between the two BGs at the time the charge was declared,

You need to read the FAQs.

A charger can only wheel up to the point that contact would have been made. So if the initial gap was 1mm - the maximum wheel is 1mm.

petedalby wrote:You need to read the FAQs.

A charger can only wheel up to the point that contact would have been made. So if the initial gap was 1mm - the maximum wheel is 1mm.

ok but where does it say that in the rules i cannot find it, on page 53 it says combine such an advance with a single wheel, made at any stage during the charge it does not mention anything about wheeling up the point where the enemy unit was before it evaded, is this rule on a different page?

So this is a point about the relationship between the printed rulebook and supplementary information published by the authors using the FAQ mechanism. The generally accepted convention is that the FAQs modify the rulebook. But of course you don't have to accept that and may prefer to use the rulebook only.

Page 3 of the FAQs

"The direction of charge is determined BEFORE evaders are moved"

It doesn't say it in the rules. But it does cover what happens when the opponent stands to fight - stepping forwards etc. - all of which prevent any further wheeling. A bit of a hole in the rules then.

Since you say there was an umpire, I'm assuming this was in a competition. Usually the organisers will set down the rules for those. For example: "The rules to be used are Field of Glory: Ancients and Medieval v1.0 The Umpire will utilise any current official errata and clarifications as detailed on the Field of Glory website."

For what it's worth, I feel the FAQ went the wrong way on this. I've seen heavy foot who really wanted to charge enemy battle troops have to charge fpretty much straight forwards because of some scrawny light foot in their faces. Seems unhistorical to me.

I agree with graham

grahambriggs wrote:For what it's worth, I feel the FAQ went the wrong way on this. I've seen heavy foot who really wanted to charge enemy battle troops have to charge fpretty much straight forwards because of some scrawny light foot in their faces. Seems unhistorical to me.

I think the dangers of perceived unfair exploits of being able to determine how you charge after an opponent evades could open a can of worms and certainly would be to the advantage of evil-minded more experienced players.

Personally I think it is also ahistorical that midway through the advance to charge units start performing excessive manuvers.

If memory serves (no book handy) one can wheel if necessary to follow evaders even if the charge target was originally positioned so that no appreciable initial wheel could be made. I can't tell from the description of the circumstances whether this rule would be implicated.

iversonjm wrote:If memory serves (no book handy) one can wheel if necessary to follow evaders even if the charge target was originally positioned so that no appreciable initial wheel could be made. I can't tell from the description of the circumstances whether this rule would be implicated.

Not quite. P 68. "If all target battle groups evade out of the original path of the charge, the chargers can wheel in attempt to catch them." (my emphasis).

Thus, the first obligation of a charging BG is to attempt to contact (if permitted) each and every BG that falls within the "original path" of its charge.

zoltan wrote:

iversonjm wrote:If memory serves (no book handy) one can wheel if necessary to follow evaders even if the charge target was originally positioned so that no appreciable initial wheel could be made. I can't tell from the description of the circumstances whether this rule would be implicated.

Not quite. P 68. "If all target battle groups evade out of the original path of the charge, the chargers can wheel in attempt to catch them." (my emphasis).

Thus, the first obligation of a charging BG is to attempt to contact (if permitted) each and every BG that falls within the "original path" of its charge.

I don't think that is the full quote. DO you have it handy?
Each and every BG that was the target of the charge...then yes. But units may become new targets especially if they were shielded by the skirmishers.

It's a two-step process. As regards the LF (or any evaders), the relevant part is p66, first bullet. "If they are to evade, the charger then uses a measuring stick or tape to indicate the direction of the charge, which must be achievable by wheeling and which would "legally" contact the evaders had they remained stationary" (my emphasis).

If the LF had remained stationary, you obviously can't wheel past their original position.

This is the direction of the charge.

The second part is what happens as a result of the evade. If the evade doesn't reveal new charge targets, you can then also wheel to follow the evaders.

If the evade reveals new targets (the knights in this case), not all targets have evaded, so you don't wheel to follow evaders, and follow the original declared direction of charge.

peterrjohnston wrote: If the evade reveals new targets (the knights in this case), not all targets have evaded, so you don't wheel to follow evaders, and follow the original declared direction of charge.

As the LH cannot contact the knights (they must stop 1MU short) are the knights a target? IIRC a target is any revealed BG that would be contacted by the charge, but I could be wrong.

As the LH cannot contact the knights (they must stop 1MU short) are the knights a target?

Page 60 says the knights could be a target of the charge if the LH pass a CMT to charge, otherwise must halt 1MU away if they hadn't attempted and passed the CMT prior to the charge.