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Field Fortifications
Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:45 pm
by BrettPT
Working my way through understanding the fortifications rules, mainly on pp78-9. A couple of clarifying questions:
1. Does artillery defending a fortification have to test to stand and shoot if charged?
Reaction Moves (to an assault) on page 30 says "Unlimbered Artillery must test if they wish to stand and fire. If the test is failed the guns are abandoned" . The Responding to an Assault table on page 69 says "Artillery choosing to stand and fire" take a CT
I cannot find any exception for artillery defending fortifications, so assume that artillery must test if charged. Is this correct?
2. Do artillery in fortifications shoot infantry/charging cavalry on 4+ at close range, or 5+?
Page 78 says "Firing by infantry into or from fortifications is treated the same as firing into or from buildings"
My reading is that the word "infantry" means this rule is limited to infantry defenders, not artillery defenders, so 4+ for artillery at close range.
In an assault however, it seems different. Assaulting the front or sides of a field fortification is treated as if assaulting troops who are defending buildings, except the defenders also count as being uphill". Assuming that 'assaulting' means the act of charging, defensive fire, closing, combat and outcome moves, then artillery being assaulted would need 5+ to hit with defensive fire.
Have I read this correctly?
3. I assume that artillery need a 6+ to hit in combat (-PoAs for fighting across an obstacle and for being artillery) and that large units defending/assaulting a field fortification get 4 dice (as in building combat). Is this correct?
Thanks
Brett
Re: Field Fortifications
Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:19 pm
by SirGarnet
1. I believe you are correct. Those are the relevant sections.
2. P78 has its own special firing rules for artillery, including allocation and POAs, so it seems pretty straightforward. 4+ on defensive fire. Artillery can't defend buildings, so how infantry is treated (5+) seems irrelevant to me and the normal 4+ applies to artillery.
3. What you say makes sense except that Fortifications while applying the building dice rules also expressly give the Enemy Downhill dice bonus to defenders.
Re: Field Fortifications
Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:33 am
by terrys
Page 78 says "Firing by infantry into or from fortifications is treated the same as firing into or from buildings"
My reading is that the word "infantry" means this rule is limited to infantry defenders, not artillery defenders, so 4+ for artillery at close range.
In an assault however, it seems different. Assaulting the front or sides of a field fortification is treated as if assaulting troops who are defending buildings, except the defenders also count as being uphill". Assuming that 'assaulting' means the act of charging, defensive fire, closing, combat and outcome moves, then artillery being assaulted would need 5+ to hit with defensive fire.
The rules for firing are the same during the assault phase as for the firing phase.
However, firing with infantry from a building (or fortification) has explicit rules which make them hit on a 5+ at close range.
Artillery are not subject to this rule.
Assaulting means "attempting to get into combat". It does not cover defensive firing, combat or outcome moves.
The basic rules is:
Buildings can only be defended by infantry
Fortifications are best defended by artillery.
Re: Field Fortifications
Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:18 pm
by BrettPT
Assaulting means "attempting to get into combat". It does not cover defensive firing, combat or outcome moves.
Thanks Terry.
I am not sure that this is how the last paragraph page 78 actually reads. It says
"Assaulting the front or sides of a field fortification is treated as if assaulting troops who are defending buildings, except the defenders also count as being uphill". As being uphill has no relevance on getting into contact, but only on combat, the inclusion of the exception for being uphill seems to imply that assualting includes combat in this instance.
Also reading page 80, on assaulting obstacles (which applies to attacking fiortifications), assaulting there clearly includes combat and outcome moves.
Anyway
The effect of the last paragraph on page 78 is intended to be:
1. Cavalry cannot charge the front or flank of a fortification (this is also stated on page 28)
2. To contact the defenders you contact the perimeter of the fortification
3. Flank assaults are treated as frontal assaults (although the defenders will not get any defensive fire)
In combat, the Obstacle rules on page 80 apply. Otherwise it is a normal combat. Attackers and defenders can have flank and rear support as usual.
Notably, infantry cannot be made to retire from fortifications unless broken. Artillery can however be made to retire disordered/wavering from shooting or combat as normal.
Have I got this correct?
None of us playtesters at North Shore have ever used fortifications and I have never seen them used in anyone elses games so far. However a couple of players at our recent tournament commented on maybe getting fotrtifications, so I can see that I might need to adjudicate disputes about them next tournie!
Cheers
Brett
Re: Field Fortifications
Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:01 am
by terrys
As being uphill has no relevance on getting into contact, but only on combat, the inclusion of the exception for being uphill seems to imply that assualting includes combat in this instance.
Not really - since the uphill doesn't count until the combat phase.
It mat have been more accurate to say "combat against the front or sides of a fortification" on page 78, but I think the intent is fairly obvious.
Notably, infantry cannot be made to retire from fortifications unless broken. Artillery can however be made to retire disordered/wavering from shooting or combat as normal.
Unless of course the guns are immobile.
Forcing artillery out of a fortification isn't easy. They fire back at you with normal POA's.
If, for example, you approached with 3 units to close range of a large unit in a fortification:
In their next turn the guns would get 4 dice at each - hitting on a 4. (2 hits each)
Firing back your 3 disordered units would get 3 dice each - 9 dice hitting on a 5 (3 hits).
The artillery would have a chance to recover at the end of their turn.
Approaching with less units is much worse (for the infantry).
Now - if you can squeeze in 4 units against a single fortification.......
Fortifications are restricted to only a few armies, and some of those can only have immobile artillery in them.
Re: Field Fortifications
Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:41 am
by bahdahbum
But if you charge the fortifications with infantry, the artillery has to test to stand . If artillery stands they fire at medium range .
We are just beginning to play so we still struggle a lot with the rules
I suppose a large battery can only be placed in a large fortification .
Re: Field Fortifications
Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:12 am
by panda2
Artillery that chooses to stand and fire will fire at short range, if it passes the CT. Artillery only fire at medium range if they choose to fire then retire (which they can only do if the enemy starts 4MU or more away).
Andy D
Re: Field Fortifications
Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:32 pm
by terrys
But if you charge the fortifications with infantry, the artillery has to test to stand . If artillery stands they fire at medium range .
Since assaulting the front or sides of a fortification are treated "as if assaulting troops who are defending buildings" (page 78), and "units defending a building will only leave it from an outcome move if broken" (page 77). Artillery defending fortifications take a test when assaulted (passing on a 4+), but don't leave the fortification even if they fail the test.
I certainly wouldn't expect artillery in fortifications to anything other than stand and fire at close range (unless they are wavering when charged).
Firing at medium range is only done by artillery units that intend to abandon the guns - which would be very unusual for artilllry in fortifications.
I suppose a large battery can only be placed in a large fortification .
Correct