Slitherine

I think some values of the Jagdpanzer IV (L/48) are wrong. If you compare Hard Attack (HA), Ground Defense (GD) and Initiative (I) with other Panzerjäger, it does not make sense.

The first series of Jagdpanzer IV is armed with the same gun as Panzer IV Ausf. H oder J, StuGe 40 or Mardern III.

This new generation of tank hunter is based on the Panzer IV hull. The first batch has a front plate 60mm thick and lower 50mm thick and quite slopped (50° for the upper hull, 45° for the lower hull). Few months later, the front plate was increased to 80mm (before the mount of the L/70 gun).

Now some data:
StuG 40
HA 16 / GD 16 / I 7
Marder III Ausf. H
HA 14 / GD 13 / I 7
Marder III Ausf. M
HA 15 / GD 11 / I 8
Jagdpanzer IV (L/48)
HA 14 / GD 11 / I 6

As you can see, same gun (7,5cm StuK/PaK 39/40) with three different values. But StuG 40 might be considered a better tank killer because of his special optics from the Sturmartillerie, special training and his low profile. Jagpanzer IV should at least have a HA of 15. I would give him 16.

According to PzC, he is less armored/protected than a Marder III Ausf. H which has an unarmored upper hull (more or less). GD should be 14 to 16.

And Jagdpanzer IV has the worst I of those 4 machines, although this tank hunter was made to ambush other tanks. 7 is a minimum, and I would give him 8.

There is definitely something wrong with that, don't you think?

I address this issue in my unit revisions mod for the grand campaigns. From my description of the Jagdpanzer IV series.

10. JagdPanzer IV defenses significantly buffed, cost adjusted.

i. Stats
JagdPz IV/48 cost = 328, ammo = 8 fuel = 53 move = 5 INI = 6 SA = 4 HA = 15 GD = 16 AD = 12 CD = 2
JagdPz IV/70(V) cost = 566 ammo = 6 fuel = 33 move = 4 INI = 9 SA = 4 HA = 20 GD = 19 AD = 13 CD = 2

ii. The JagdPz IV/48 is a cheap tank destroyer with stats slightly worse than the StuG IIIG. However, it has superior fuel/ammo and a good potential upgrade.

iii. The JagdPz IV/70(V) has the same gun as the Panther and similar armor. It, however, was not nearly as mobile. Its excellent gun, good armor, and relatively cheap price make it perfect for defense.

From my section on tank guns

7.5 cm KwK 40 L/43 INI = 8 HA = 14 (Panzer IVF/2, StuG IIIF)
7.5 cm KwK 40 L/48 INI = 9 HA = 16 (Panzer IVG, Panzer IVH, StuG IIIF/8, StuG IIIG, StuG IV)
7.5 cm KwK 42 L/70 INI = 12 HA = 20 (Panther)
8.8 cm KwK 36 L/56 INI = 11 HA = 19 (88 FlaK in AT mode, Tiger I)
8.8 cm KwK 43 L/71 INI = 14 HA = 24 (Hornisse, Ferdinand)

The tank destroyers have -3 INI compared with the turreted versions due to how the game rules work (AT guns attacked by turreted units get a +3 INI bonus). Some exceptions (Marder series, Hornisse) have higher INI for balance reasons.

There is definitely something wrong with that, don't you think?

They made some good changes to the soviet and German mid war line up in one of the patches but the Jagdpanzers appear to have slipped through the net. The Marder is an open topped tin can by comparison and the stug designs are older, so yes the jagdpanzers should be tougher.

I thought this was messed up too.

Here, deckarudo, this is a thread I started on the same subject.

viewtopic.php?f=147&t=33105

deducter wrote:I address this issue in my unit revisions mod for the grand campaigns. From my description of the Jagdpanzer IV series.

Where can I get you mod please? I think the modifications you've listed are quite right.

I was also thinking that the 85mm gun of the T-34/85 or SU-85 is not equal to Tiger's one (8,8 cm L/56) in term of performances. It was instead slighly better than the KwK/PaK/StuK 40. Good to know you've also changed it.

deckarudo wrote:

deducter wrote:I address this issue in my unit revisions mod for the grand campaigns. From my description of the Jagdpanzer IV series.

Where can I get you mod please? I think the modifications you've listed are quite right.

Check Deducter's mod here:viewtopic.php?f=147&t=30708
It is much more interesting to play the DLC's with his efile's.