Slitherine

This is in the movement charts - no other reference in the book at all.

What on earth is this?

Only decent reference i could find was:

A rough translation from Belidor's "Dictonnaire Portaif de l'Engenieur et de l'Artilleur" (1763):

"Prolonge, Artillery, it is a rope that serves to pull a cannon in retreat when the piece is involved [engaged]. The gunners also serve the prolonges in order to conduct an artillery piece by main strength from one place to another."

Charles James "Military Dictionary" (1810) includes the term, too:

"...a long thick rope which is used to drag artillery; hence called a drag-rope."

(http://www.napoleon-series.org/cgi-bin/ ... d;id=77664)

so does that mean unlimbered artillery???

Unlimbered artillery can move 2MU in movement phase using this method. It is a complex move.

Its a way to move your artillery without having to limber it first, since it is your crews dragging it with ropes etc it is much slower than limbering and moving. Only up side is you are already unlimbered so you can shoot the turn after you move the guns.

Do Infantry with an artillery attachment move at normal Infantry speed or prolong artillery speed ?
Thanks

Infantry move at their normal speed.

The only attachment I recall that slows troops is a heavy artillery attachment to a medium artillery unit. (p36 bullet4)

keep in mind that heavy artillery attachments are a waste of points, so far they only fire the same as medium artillery so not any real point spending the 2 extra points

Really not a fan of this within the rules.

I don't know of many cases of this happening during the period.

Makes gun batteries far to manoureable.

Don

donm wrote:I don't know of many cases of this happening during the period.

Senarmont's artillery "charge" at Friedland would be a good example.
Think of it as a large battery with an officer attachment prolonging every turn as it passes it's CMT on a 4+

I don't consider 2 MU to be too maneuverable, considering how much further you could get by limbering. sometimes it helps get the batteries clear of intervening troops or terrain without having to limber and move.

donm wrote:Really not a fan of this within the rules.
I don't know of many cases of this happening during the period.
Makes gun batteries far to manoureable.

I think the real practical efffect is to allow a a battery to unlimber at long range and start scooting forward slowly to medium against an opponent who is stationary. With out this an attacker would have a lot of difficulty getting a battery to medium range.

I agree with Hazelbark - the 2MU move is needed for artillery to be useful on table.

When using artillery offensively, standard practice for me is to move (double moves hopefully) to just outside 6MU of enemy, unlimber, then in a following turn manhandle the guns from 7MU to 5MU - where they become effective.

Given that (average drilled) artillery will only pass their CMT to prolong half the time, it effectively costs 2 CPs to prolong a battery 2MU every 2 turns.

You can 'crab' 1 MU every pair of shooting bounds using the arc rules, however this cannot be used to change a range band - which is really all that is important.

I think that artillery actually works really well in these rules.

Cheers
Brett

It is described on page 87 .


This is well described in a recent publication "Napoleonic Artillery" by Dawson Dawson and Summerfield . Other terms used are " bricole" and "Schleppsiel". These were introduced in the mid 1700's and the Prussian and Austrians used them as well as the French. Essentially it was method of moving guns short distances without having to re-attch them to the limbers ,There are photographs of the re-enactors L'association Britannique de la Garde Imperiale moving a 12pdr ( about 1 ton in weight) across muddy ground using just 6 gunners. Handspikes coud also be used to move guns.

Am a bit supprised by the replies, as most at our club, even those who do not play the rules, have the same opinion as me.

2 MUs is 134 yards in 15mm ground scale, so not what I would call a small distance. In Fridays game we played 5 moves so I could have moved 670 yards, if you add in possible wheels to change angle of fire, I could have moved another 335 yards. Given another couple of moves, I could have got in the full mile.

As to re-enactors moving guns in mud, perhaps someone needs to re-write the battle of Waterloo.

As the only list that current has officer attachments is Russia, the rest of us will need a 5 or 6 to pass the CMT. Or will be brigade moving with an infantry unit.

Don

donm wrote:2 MUs is 134 yards in 15mm ground scale, so not what I would call a small distance. In Fridays game we played 5 moves so I could have moved 670 yards, if you add in possible wheels to change angle of fire, I could have moved another 335 yards. Given another couple of moves, I could have got in the full mile.

You would have to pass all those CMTs first. On the normal CMT odds, that works out to an expected 670/3=223 yards, which for 5 turns works out to less than a tenth of a mile per hour expected forward motion, which leaves plenty of time for shooting between advancements.

Guns pivoting in fortifications are returned to their original direction each turn since it a mechanical device that may represent no more than turning each gun a bit in position. Those in the field are mobile so not returned to position. Maybe it was not done that way in order to keep things as WYSIWYG as possible on the table, or maybe pivoting reflects some combination of turning guns, prolonging, or limbering and moving for short distances that is not worth modeling at battery level or below. The no-changing-range-band rule for pivots is a useful constraint. Unless tournaments are a concern, you could set a proper house rule in your group.

donm wrote:As to re-enactors moving guns in mud, perhaps someone needs to re-write the battle of Waterloo.

21st Century men are big and manly men (well, big anyway) while those of two centuries ago were puny and scrawny but were not subject to animal protection laws that would prohibit them from borrowing a horse from the limber to help them tug.

As the only list that current has officer attachments is Russia, the rest of us will need a 5 or 6 to pass the CMT. Or will be brigade moving with an infantry unit.

France 1812 also has officer attachments available for artillery. Have not checked others. The division or corps commander could also lead the guns forward, unless I'm missing something in the rules. Which makes me think about those grand batteries. For my purposes I am thinking about a simple rule on using command points and an existing artillery brigadier to assemble a grand battery that would be treated as a "division". Would it also function as a single movement unit then, though firing by original units? How many non-horse artillery bases required to be Grand? 10, say? Could artillery attachments be assigned in advance to a grand battery in an army able to assign those at deployment.

Another item - there does not appear to be any special restriction on sliding artillery units in prolong or normal movement (though a pivot by definition remains a pivote). This could represent moving guns from one end of a unit to the other so does not trouble me.

donm wrote:Am a bit supprised by the replies, as most at our club, even those who do not play the rules, have the same opinion as me.

2 MUs is 134 yards in 15mm ground scale, so not what I would call a small distance. In Fridays game we played 5 moves so I could have moved 670 yards, if you add in possible wheels to change angle of fire, I could have moved another 335 yards. Given another couple of moves, I could have got in the full mile.

I don't understand the 1 MU wheel. Do people think you can frog walk your batteries via pivot to fire?
p 25 4th bullet under recovery phase the batteries that moved for firing are restored. I thought this was manadatory

MikeK wrote:The division or corps commander could also lead the guns forward, unless I'm missing something in the rules.

I find for the attacker having the divisional with the battery to double move it on turn one is important. Move up. Unlimber with the 2nd CMT. Then you can start firing.

MikeK wrote: Another item - there does not appear to be any special restriction on sliding artillery units in prolong or normal movement (though a pivot by definition remains a pivote). This could represent moving guns from one end of a unit to the other so does not trouble me.

Well you must move at least 3 MU to slide so prolong does not apply by definition
p38

donm wrote:Am a bit supprised by the replies, as most at our club, even those who do not play the rules, have the same opinion as me.

2 MUs is 134 yards in 15mm ground scale, so not what I would call a small distance. In Fridays game we played 5 moves so I could have moved 670 yards.

I get your math. However I view it less literally. I just view it as a way to get attacker artillery into medium range.

I will try to think, but off the top of my head i don't recall a situation where a battery coming up to deploy was mangled by enemy fire. I can think of some in the mid to late 19th century. But ranges were greater.

This suggests.
1) attacking artillery was nearly always at long range.
or
2) the deployment of artillery at mid range was easy under fire than we might otherwise conclude.

I could rationalize allowing the 2 MU, that a battery in small sections could even limber a gun section at a time to reposition them a short distance. I'd need to read the limbers deployment distance to the rear to really want to argue it.

But short version i don't see it as more than a mechanic and take it less literally.

@Hazelbark: I thought so at first too, but it turns out that only batteries in fortifications are restored per p25 after a pivot for firing.

Second bullet on sliding as a simple move is within 6 MU, though if prolonging it would be complex anyway. There is no forward motion requirement. I am assuming that with wheels and slides and all you just measure the corners to make sure the move is not more than 2 MU.

There is also the lateral slide-only complex move but that is clear.

Gentlemen,

Page 43, 1st column, 3rd bullet.
' A commander may join a single unit during the movement phase or the recovery phase. The following rules apply:
He can only join a single unit of either infantry or cavalry.'

I questioned this some weeks ago with Terry over on the Beta forum and was told that Corps and divisional commanders cannot join artillery units, not even to rally them.

The only way around this is to form your artillery unit with an infantry unit into a brigade and more with the help of the commander that way.

Perhaps you may want to re-think how easy it is to move / recover your artillery units.

One question that remains un-answered about artillery office attachments is, do they replace a model or like artillery atttachments do they add a base.

Don