Slitherine

Hi Guys,

I have a question on the bottom left hand column of page 30, regarding Wavering units being assaulted and requiring a Cohesion Test. If they fail, becoming Broken, it appears that they stay in place and do not perfrom an Outcome Move, correct?

In some cases, the unit would essentially be Destroyed, but the Retire or destruction would occur when the Outcome Moves are applied in teh Combat phase, correct?

We had a circumstance in our last game in which a Wavering artillery unit was charged by Cavalry, failed its Test and becoming Broken. We moved the Cavary into contact and since Broken units get no combat dice, we applied the Outcome Move, showing Broken Artillery in contact with Cavalry are Destroyed, correct?

Thanks,

Rob

I had the same question. If they break before contact they make an Outcome move and may be caught if the attacker's charge can still reach them.

See the threads "Question after first game" and "A Complicated Situation" a few weeks past.

[Deleted rambling answer here. See immediately following post.]

Foot artillery actually retire 1 D6+4 MU. If you look at the charts you will see unlimbered artillery at the bottom of the outcome moves section. They are only destroyed if they are in contact with enemy cavalry.
Since you test before the chargers move and make the outcome move before the cav would make its charge move you would use the foot artillery line. Under the broken move it states retire D6+4. If the cav contact the retiring artillery then they would be destroyed. Might be tough to outrun cav if they start very close to you.

Good answer!

The Wavering issue is for me overshadowed with getting clear on the Artillery Assault Reactions alternatives. I am looking to plug a few gaps in what I've found so far.

Artillery Assault Reactions:

Default Reactions with no CT(p29):
- Limbered make a Retire Outcome Move.
- Unlimbered "normally" Abandon Guns (p47)(meaning retire crews to shelter behind infantry within 2 MU) taking a Cohesion Loss per Abandoned Guns Table. [If no infantry in the range to shelter, do the crew make a normal Outcome Move retirement?]

or try one of these with a CT (p30):

-Unlimbered Horse Artillery may CT in order to limber and retire.* Fail={Limber} and Retire {with cohesion loss?}. (Page 30). [nothing in CT table or Outcome Moves table about Limber & Retire effects but I assume there is a Cohesion loss?).]
-Unlimbered Artillery may CT to stand and fire. Fail=Abandon guns w/ Cohesion Loss.(CT Table; Abandoned Guns Table)

-Unlimbered Artillery may CT to fire,* and then if enemy not halted Abandon Guns. Fail = Foot Arty Abandon Guns (w/ Cohesion Loss), but Horse Arty Limber and Retire. [Page 30, but again nothing in CT table or Outcome Moves table for Limber and Retire.]
* Subject to pre-conditions.

Can anyone plug those gaps in my understanding? Thanks.

[If no infantry in the range to shelter, do the crew make a normal Outcome Move retirement?]

No outcome move they just abandon guns. The guns remain abandoned until you try to recover them. then you need to have a friendly infantry unit within 6 Mu and no enemy within 2 MU (page 47)
Then you roll and see if your crew was killed during the abandoning attempt or they survived. Until you attempt to recover the guns remain on table but are treated as open ground. If the recovery attempt fails the guns are removed.


Horse artillery that fails to stand and fire will limber up and move as per the outcome moves for "otherwise" on the chart. they do not lose cohesion for failing this test but if failed. I would ignore the last part of the first bullet for unlimbered horse artillery, I believe this applies to artillery that wants to try and shoot instead of retiring, as is covered in the next bullet below on page 30.

deadtorius wrote:

[If no infantry in the range to shelter, do the crew make a normal Outcome Move retirement?]

No outcome move they just abandon guns. The guns remain abandoned until you try to recover them. then you need to have a friendly infantry unit within 6 Mu and no enemy within 2 MU (page 47)
Then you roll and see if your crew was killed during the abandoning attempt or they survived. Until you attempt to recover the guns remain on table but are treated as open ground. If the recovery attempt fails the guns are removed.]

So the crew either is physically (or notionally?) relocated behind some foot in range, or if not it notionally abandons the guns (not depicted on the table at all) unless the guns are recovered? (Exit stage left.)

deadtorius wrote:Horse artillery that fails to stand and fire will limber up and move as per the outcome moves for "otherwise" on the chart.

Is that based on a source (text, authors or practice in tournaments?) or a logical process of elimination that leaves only the Outcome Table? I'd accept that, in lieu of anything else to point to.

deadtorius wrote: they do not lose cohesion for failing this test but if failed.

Why no cohesion loss if the CT is failed? THe last lines on p30(right) say a cohesion loss applies except for abandoned Artillery units. Also the Outcome Move Table has no column for steady troops. So it makes sense there would be a cohesion loss on failure.

deadtorius wrote:I would ignore the last part of the first bullet for unlimbered horse artillery, I believe this applies to artillery that wants to try and shoot instead of retiring, as is covered in the next bullet below on page 30.

Do you mean ignoring the first bullet for unlimbered artillery generally (stand and fire), since it says failing leads to abandoning the guns (as does the CT Table) and that does not work because it does not (but should) allow a retirement by the horse batteries? The following bullet that is the first bullet for just unlimbered Horse Arty says they retire even if failing the test, which is the scenario where they should be able to retire succcessfully either way (with just the mandatory cohesion loss).

It does seem to me that horse arty should be able to get away without a cohesion test if assaulted from a distance.

Thanks for the responses

Do you mean ignoring the first bullet for unlimbered artillery generally (stand and fire), since it says failing leads to abandoning the guns (as does the CT Table) and that does not work because it does not (but should) allow a retirement by the horse batteries? The following bullet that is the first bullet for just unlimbered Horse Arty says they retire even if failing the test, which is the scenario where they should be able to retire succcessfully either way (with just the mandatory cohesion loss).

It does seem to me that horse arty should be able to get away without a cohesion test if assaulted from a distance.

I was referring to the whole bullet about horse artillery and retire even if failing the test to retire, which seems kind of redundant and who would want to try and stand and take a charge with limbered artillery Just seemed some odd wording that confuses the whole issue of limbered horse artillery buggering off, which really seems the only thing to do with them.

d

eadtorius wrote:Horse artillery that fails to stand and fire will limber up and move as per the outcome moves for "otherwise" on the chart.



Is that based on a source (text, authors or practice in tournaments?) or a logical process of elimination that leaves only the Outcome Table? I'd accept that, in lieu of anything else to point to.

From what I have read this was standard practice with horse guns. I believe they were normally 3 pounders so lightest guns you could get at the time. Light barrels light limbers and the crews were trained to limber and unlimber quickly so they could shoot and scoot as it were. This is why horse batteries can bugger off when charged and foot batteries will abandon the guns and run for cover.