Slitherine

Hi,

I just started playing CEAW Grand Strategy 2.0 a couple of weeks ago as the Axis against the AI. Many thanks to Slitherine and the community for this great expansion!

I was able to successfully invade England (after conquering Poland, Denmark, Norway, the Low Countries and France) and capture London but now find myself pondering over what to do next and have a few questions.

The time is July 12, 1941 (turn 35) and there are still a few British units left and a few cities to capture. I control everything else from Newcastle in the North to Birmingham in the south (with the exception of Liverpool which should fall next turn if I continue mopping up). I also have Port Said surrounded in Egypt and advance units at the gates of Jerusalem. The RN in the Med has all but been eliminated and the RN in the Atlantic has also taken a severe mauling.

I would like to start preparing for the invasion of Russia before the Russian Dow on Germany occurs but I am wondering if I should go on and invade Canada first, to completely knock the UK out of the war, and possibly go on to capture the US as well if all goes well…

My worry with this strategy is that I would not be ready to Dow on Russia in time…

My questions are:

What could be expected (not only from the AI but also from a competent and experienced human opponent in terms of what is possible) if Canada is not invaded? Also, what could be expected/is possible if Canada is invaded and the UK knocked out but the US still active?

My other option is to mop up the rest of England and garrison it against invasion from the US which is what I imagine could happen next. The problem I feel this strategy may impose is that the Axis will not only have to protect France from being invaded by the Allies but also GB at the same time thereby becoming overextended on two fronts in the West. I suppose this could be doable with control of the Atlantic which could certainly involve the Regia Marina sent to the Atlantic via the Suez canal/Red Sea transport loop for extra support (now that the RN has been knocked out of the Med...), and the Luftwaffe as well.

Many thanks to anyone who wishes to comment.

I'm just a beginner myself so look for more experienced players advice. But I have to say that against a human Russia is your biggest concern. The delay in Barbarossa means your R&D advantage over the Russians will be that much shorter and they will be that much stronger (and more numerous). Build against the Red Menace now. The AI is criminally stupid: don't expect humans to exhibit the same behaviour. Well, maybe except beginners such as myself...

landing in canada brings the US into the war - a bad idea unless you do it in strength and have a plan to deal with the US

I beat the AI in my very first game even after it nearly got to Omsk. That about sums up the AI (well that and the fact that it likes to declare war on Switzerland for some reason.)

Agree that Russia is your most dangerous foe and your focus should be on them, but in the "hands" of the AI you won't have much to fear from the Soviets. The Brits are crippled once they lose the British Isles (at least against the AI) and the AI won't be able to develop a coordinated, powerful campaign to retake them if you garrison the islands appropriately. So no need to sail to Canada and thus activate the Americans too.

Which brings up my main point; only play the AI long enough to get a hang of the game mechanics then quickly move to PBEM. Reasons being you can pick up some bad habits playing against the AI, and humans are some much more devious ie. fun to play against. I found the AI frustrating in the vanilla version of CEAW, and the AI has an even harder time managing in the GS Mod.

The forum is active and there are still many beginners to PBEM play, so take the plunge.

And welcome to the forum.

richardsd wrote:landing in canada brings the US into the war - a bad idea unless you do it in strength and have a plan to deal with the US

Doesn't the US get into the war eventualy..?

The GS player Manual v2.00 Key events calendar lists Dec 19, 1941 as the expected entry date of the US into the war...what exactly does this mean and how does the US get activated aside from invading Canada?

Thanks

gchristie wrote:Agree that Russia is your most dangerous foe and your focus should be on them, but in the "hands" of the AI you won't have much to fear from the Soviets. The Brits are crippled once they lose the British Isles (at least against the AI) and the AI won't be able to develop a coordinated, powerful campaign to retake them if you garrison the islands appropriately. So no need to sail to Canada and thus activate the Americans too.

Which brings up my main point; only play the AI long enough to get a hang of the game mechanics then quickly move to PBEM. Reasons being you can pick up some bad habits playing against the AI, and humans are some much more devious ie. fun to play against. I found the AI frustrating in the vanilla version of CEAW, and the AI has an even harder time managing in the GS Mod.

The forum is active and there are still many beginners to PBEM play, so take the plunge.

And welcome to the forum.

Thanks

I do want to get on with invading Russia ASAP but feel I need a better sense of what the US can bring to the table with the UK still in the war via Canada. When exactly and how does the US enter the war?

I understand the AI won't be able to develop a coordinated, powerful campaign, but I suppose this may not necessarily be the case in PBEM play...as you have alluded too.

I aslo appreciate your point about only playing the AI long enough to get a hang of the game and do look forward to moving on to PBEM play ASAP.

Thanks again.

According to the manual, "Dec 19, 1941 Expected USA Entry." It's hardwired, unless you invade North America prior to then in which case USA will activate earlier. If you start a game as Allies you will see what the USA has on the board, which is what they bring to the fight at a minimum. USA can purchase units before Dec 19, 1941 as its PPs slowly accumulate but I don't know what the AI's spending priorities are. Their tech is behind Germany's early on, too.

You are maxing out on research as the Germans I hope as it is your advantage and you should fight to keep that advantage.

This is a seemingly easy game to learn, but it takes a long time to master.

All that being said, who knows, you may be on to a new killer strategy so try it out and let us know how it goes

I am trying to support as much research as I can with 2 labs (for now) in every category except infantry where I only have one. Gaining tech levels early definitely pays off more than spending PPs on units.

Gaining control of the Atlantic with good air support (a carrier would be great!) will help in holding back the US but the clock is ticking and I need more builds for a 42 spring Barbarossa...

Christolos wrote:Hi,

I just started playing CEAW Grand Strategy 2.0 a couple of weeks ago as the Axis against the AI. Many thanks to Slitherine and the community for this great expansion!

I was able to successfully invade England (after conquering Poland, Denmark, Norway, the Low Countries and France) and capture London but now find myself pondering over what to do next and have a few questions.

The time is July 12, 1941 (turn 35) and there are still a few British units left and a few cities to capture. I control everything else from Newcastle in the North to Birmingham in the south (with the exception of Liverpool which should fall next turn if I continue mopping up). I also have Port Said surrounded in Egypt and advance units at the gates of Jerusalem. The RN in the Med has all but been eliminated and the RN in the Atlantic has also taken a severe mauling.

I would like to start preparing for the invasion of Russia before the Russian Dow on Germany occurs but I am wondering if I should go on and invade Canada first, to completely knock the UK out of the war, and possibly go on to capture the US as well if all goes well…

My worry with this strategy is that I would not be ready to Dow on Russia in time…

My questions are:

What could be expected (not only from the AI but also from a competent and experienced human opponent in terms of what is possible) if Canada is not invaded? Also, what could be expected/is possible if Canada is invaded and the UK knocked out but the US still active?

My other option is to mop up the rest of England and garrison it against invasion from the US which is what I imagine could happen next. The problem I feel this strategy may impose is that the Axis will not only have to protect France from being invaded by the Allies but also GB at the same time thereby becoming overextended on two fronts in the West. I suppose this could be doable with control of the Atlantic which could certainly involve the Regia Marina sent to the Atlantic via the Suez canal/Red Sea transport loop for extra support (now that the RN has been knocked out of the Med...), and the Luftwaffe as well.

Many thanks to anyone who wishes to comment.

Hello there. You are too late to do anything about Canada now. That is, if you want to win the game...

I did a game back in GS 1 that involved a complete takeover of North America. I think i invaded in 1940 to gain an ear,ly foothold. I dragged my way up to Ottawa and finished off the Brits in 1941, just in time to face the Yanks.

Its not a blueprint to victory since the rules have changed because of that game specifically, but i suggest you look at my AAR here:

viewtopic.php?f=78&t=13897

Thanks for the AAR link

I haven't had a chance to go through all the AARs yet...so I didn't know about this one.

It looks very interesting indeed and will definitely help with my exploration of the pros and cons of going after North America.

I will post more on the topic once I get through reading the AAR.

Thanks again

I am also interested in the converse of this strategy...i.e., knocking Russia out of the war before taking on the West and will begin to explore this as well. I know there are plenty of good AARs and posts on this topic as well.

supermax wrote: Hello there. You are too late to do anything about Canada now. That is, if you want to win the game...

I did a game back in GS 1 that involved a complete takeover of North America. I think i invaded in 1940 to gain an ear,ly foothold. I dragged my way up to Ottawa and finished off the Brits in 1941, just in time to face the Yanks.

Its not a blueprint to victory since the rules have changed because of that game specifically, but i suggest you look at my AAR here:

viewtopic.php?f=78&t=13897

Very interesting AAR indeed...fortune does indeed favor the bold

I also see that you are quite correct to point out that I am too late to do anything about Canada but I suppose it would not have been a good idea to get the US into the war if I managed to try something earlier on...as you have pointed out, your game was instrumental in getting the rules changed. I too agree that the US would not have sat idly with Germany 'blitzkrieging' so close to home so I believe this is good for realism.

I am reading your "FORTRESS EUROPA improved..." AAR next

I believe and as you point out, this strategy necessitates a solid defensive war against Russia, and in a sense, a solid and reactive defensive war against the rest of the Allied forces so having a control of the Antlantic, Suez, and Gibraltar, will definitely be a key factor.

This may have been something I missed in the GS 2.0 manual but how can Spain be switched to the Axis side?

How strong is Spanish navy?

Cheers

Christolos wrote:

supermax wrote: Hello there. You are too late to do anything about Canada now. That is, if you want to win the game...

I did a game back in GS 1 that involved a complete takeover of North America. I think i invaded in 1940 to gain an ear,ly foothold. I dragged my way up to Ottawa and finished off the Brits in 1941, just in time to face the Yanks.

Its not a blueprint to victory since the rules have changed because of that game specifically, but i suggest you look at my AAR here:

viewtopic.php?f=78&t=13897

Very interesting AAR indeed...fortune does indeed favor the bold

I also see that you are quite correct to point out that I am too late to do anything about Canada but I suppose it would not have been a good idea to get the US into the war if I managed to try something earlier on...as you have pointed out, your game was instrumental in getting the rules changed. I too agree that the US would not have sat idly with Germany 'blitzkrieging' so close to home so I believe this is good for realism.

I am reading your "FORTRESS EUROPA improved..." AAR next

I believe and as you point out, this strategy necessitates a solid defensive war against Russia, and in a sense, a solid and reactive defensive war against the rest of the Allied forces so having a control of the Antlantic, Suez, and Gibraltar, will definitely be a key factor.

This may have been something I missed in the GS 2.0 manual but how can Spain be switched to the Axis side?

How strong is Spanish navy?

Cheers

Spain can be switched by refusing the armistice with France and conquering all of : Tunis, Oran, Casablanca and Alger. again, if you do this, its because you can easily take Casablanca or dont want to attack the Russians in 1941.

as to my Fortress Europa Strategy, well it works very well, but it gets very though in 1944 as i am experiencing now. My improved version has more revenue and my position is better, but i attacked too much in every direction and oil is now am strategic imperative to take into consideration every time i move a single unit. I believe that if i handt suqndered oil on a 4 turns barbarossa offensive, i would be winning it by a landslide. I should anyway win it because i simply have too many troops on the maps and the allies dont have enough time, but still, the "improved improved" version will be similar with less agressive stance with Russians.

It's important to consider that succeeding with Supermax'es strategy means you have to play very aggressively with the Axis and do a blitz invasion of France and a skilled Sealion invasion. You need to land in Libya to get to Port Said and French North Africa. With Spanish support you can take Gibraltar. If you're a defense oriented player then you might not take France fast enough for a 1940 Sealion to be very successful. So it takes quite a bit of practise to succeed with his strategy.

If you e. g. fail with Sealion you will lose big time with the Axis. A well planned Sealion should work, but you need to build for it and know exactly where to land. I'm not that skilled with Sealion so I can't repeat the results Supermax is getting. So for me the Axis Fortress Europa is a risky venture. I would probably only use it against an opponent who makes a big mistake, e. g. losing most of the French navy and losing the BEF in France.

supermax wrote:[Spain can be switched by refusing the armistice with France and conquering all of : Tunis, Oran, Casablanca and Alger. again, if you do this, its because you can easily take Casablanca or dont want to attack the Russians in 1941.

as to my Fortress Europa Strategy, well it works very well, but it gets very though in 1944 as i am experiencing now. My improved version has more revenue and my position is better, but i attacked too much in every direction and oil is now am strategic imperative to take into consideration every time i move a single unit. I believe that if i handt suqndered oil on a 4 turns barbarossa offensive, i would be winning it by a landslide. I should anyway win it because i simply have too many troops on the maps and the allies dont have enough time, but still, the "improved improved" version will be similar with less agressive stance with Russians.

What if the armistice with France is accepted at first and then reversed later by a Dow on Vichy France? Can Spain still be switched by a Dow on Vichy France and conquering all of : Tunis, Oran, Casablanca and Alger or does this only happen if the armistice is not accepted when it is first offered?

Thanks

Stauffenberg wrote:It's important to consider that succeeding with Supermax'es strategy means you have to play very aggressively with the Axis and do a blitz invasion of France and a skilled Sealion invasion. You need to land in Libya to get to Port Said and French North Africa. With Spanish support you can take Gibraltar. If you're a defense oriented player then you might not take France fast enough for a 1940 Sealion to be very successful. So it takes quite a bit of practise to succeed with his strategy.

If you e. g. fail with Sealion you will lose big time with the Axis. A well planned Sealion should work, but you need to build for it and know exactly where to land. I'm not that skilled with Sealion so I can't repeat the results Supermax is getting. So for me the Axis Fortress Europa is a risky venture. I would probably only use it against an opponent who makes a big mistake, e. g. losing most of the French navy and losing the BEF in France.

I agree that highly aggressive play (including a successful Sealion...) is essential but it seems that the Axis forces don't really have much choice in the matter...i.e., they need to be as aggressive as possible with 'very aggressive and as early as possible' being the best, if it can be pulled off. I would also say that a defensive Axis player (especially too early in the game) would be just as doomed as a overly aggressive player that fails at Sealion.

Maybe the only real choice the Axis has is in deciding which of the Allied forces to be the most aggressive with, the Western Allies or Russia.

Perhaps a defense oriented player may be better suited to playing the Allied forces but this is no easy ticket either especially against an aggressive and skilled Axis opponent...very good defensive play also requires a lot of practice and the Allies need to be aggressive too.

Cheers

gchristie wrote:According to the manual, "Dec 19, 1941 Expected USA Entry." It's hardwired, unless you invade North America prior to then in which case USA will activate earlier. If you start a game as Allies you will see what the USA has on the board, which is what they bring to the fight at a minimum. USA can purchase units before Dec 19, 1941 as its PPs slowly accumulate but I don't know what the AI's spending priorities are. Their tech is behind Germany's early on, too.

You are maxing out on research as the Germans I hope as it is your advantage and you should fight to keep that advantage.

This is a seemingly easy game to learn, but it takes a long time to master.

All that being said, who knows, you may be on to a new killer strategy so try it out and let us know how it goes

It turns out that I am finding myself playing out a sort of "Fortress Europa" style of play but of course this is against the AI which is not as challenging an opponent as a human player would be...the AI keeps sending unescorted transports loaded with American GIs that are easy pickings for my combined German and Italian navies in the Atlantic (I also have a German aircraft carrier built...)

I am still having fun in the East where a particularly interesting situation has arisen.
My units in the Middle East are capturing Russian oil and it looks (so far) like there isn’t much of a defense going on in the south of Russia. The AI has been giving me a fun time in the North however…



Going after the Russians oil


The AI has been putting on an interesting show in the North


Easier going in the South...for now...


The whole show

The Russians are very weak just north of Kiev. So a possible idea could be to send the Germans north at full speed to engage the northern Russians in the rear. You could even get to the Russian airbases. That would force a Russian retreat in the north or the huge force there would be trapped.

Remember that the key for the Germans is to kill as many Russian units as possible and not take as much ground as you can. So if the Russians decide to stay near the front to defend you say thank you and grind down his forces. Now the Russians in the north are already up to green efficiency so you have to expect quite a bit of losses to grind them down.

The problem with rushing far to the east in the south is that the front line becomes very long. Too long for the Axis to hold. That means the Russian winter offensive will become deadly and the forward Axis units in the south can become cut-off from Germany.

Foolishly, I continued to drive eastward to capture Stalingrad and the rest of the oil and link up with my forces that came up from the Middle East so I am a little reluctant to pull back my Southern forces after all these gains...but at the same time, I also realize the danger of being overextended and not destroying vast amounts of Russian troops and material so I thought about engaging the Northern Russian forces in the rear (perhaps too late... ) but decided to do this by probing the Moscow area defenses first and then head West.




I realize this is not enagaging the front line at full speed but I got enticed by the prospect of potentially being able to capture Moscow along the way...

Delaying my drive into the rear of the Northern front line may be my downfall as my own Northern frontline is begining to crumble with several Soviet breakthroughs now threatening my rear...


The two Russian armoured corps near Budapest are out of supply so I hope to take care of them without too much trouble but I am scrambling to patch up a very messy and badly overextended line...