Slitherine

The armoured lancer cavalry are behind and to the side of the enemy heavy foot. The cav are within 1 MU of the HF flank.

The armoured cav declare a charge on the HF. Because they have to wheel to make contact with the HF flank, and have started within 1 MU, the flank will not "count" as a flank charge (page 56). So presumably the charge counts as a frontal charge?

Where does the cav line up during the manoeuvre phase? Is the cav BG picked up and placed at the front of the HF creating an absurd teleport? Or does the the cav line up against the HF flank but melee is counted as "front to front"?

Or is the cav prevented from declaring a charge because it is not permitted to wheel to make contact when starting behind the flank and within 1 MU? If this is the case, presumably the lancer cav is not required to test NOT to charge?

Hi zoltan

I'm seeing your position as a valid rear charge which does not have the 1 MU restriction placed on it. I'm reading the 2nd paragraph on P56.

Rob

And now?

I'm seeing your position as a valid rear charge which does not have the 1 MU restriction placed on it. I'm reading the 2nd paragraph on P56.

I agree.

This brings up the old question that if the cav hits the rear corner is it a flank or rear charge? It isn't defined at all in the book but RBS said it will be in the next version. The problem comes in when you have to conform. Page 70 says to 'pivot and/or slide bases the minimum necessary'. So you start under 1 MU away, wheel in, and hit the rear corner. Then, if the minimum pivot/slide is to a flank position, what do you do? I think they should have written the rule so that if you start a charge greater then 1 MU away or with 1 base fully to the rear of the target BG, then the 1 MU wheel restriction does not apply. That would have cleared up most if not all of the issues.

I'm pretty sure the reason for the 1 MU restriction is so that when opposing units are passing close to each other, that it takes at least 1 move to get into position to charge the flank next turn. If you are already around their back, they lift the 1 MU restriction, but the 90 max wheel for a charge still applies.

In your new picture zoltan the lancer cavalry would hit the side of the foot but not as a flank charge. They would then conform to the front of the BG of foot with 1 front base in contact and 1 front base extended as the overlap.

Rob

Robert241167 wrote:In your new picture zoltan the lancer cavalry would hit the side of the foot but not as a flank charge. They would then conform to the front of the BG of foot with 1 front base in contact and 1 front base extended as the overlap.

Rob

That's what we concluded - a somewhat bizzare teleport to a completely different position on the table.

Another position that they didn't think of

That's what we concluded - a somewhat bizzare teleport to a completely different position on the table.

This is a toss up situation. You do start with a base completely behind the target BG but the Charging BG is so far forward that after they wheel 90 degrees none of the bases would be completely behind the target. It could be argued that you are just too close and out of position (wrong facing) to make an effect charge in the flank on this turn. So the wheel during the charge effectively puts you in front. Admittedly a bit of an abstraction; but any game is an abstraction. I could live with a ruling either way as long as everyone is consistent.

Just remember the 1 MU ruling is a game mechanic to not allow flank charges as 2 BGs pass close to each other. The authors don't want flank charges to be easy. They are devastating when they do happen.

philqw78 wrote:Another position that they didn't think of

Still as gracious as ever, I see, Phil.

OTOH I owe you 2 pints, so I guess you can say what you like

Dare I say, "RBS putting the ami back into wargaming"

rbodleyscott wrote:OTOH I owe you 2 pints, so I guess you can say what you like

I'd rather have the beer thanks. I therefore withdraw my previous statement and replace it with:

He thought of everything he did. Its not his fault if you don't understand the rules

Its not his fault if you don't understand the rules

Would this were not the case so often.

You'll never get a beer with that attitude

So is the conclusion that the cav:

1. can definitely declare a charge, it just becomes a weird frontal charge
2. must test not to charge (because even though they can't make a flank charge they could make a weird frontal charge)?

zoltan wrote:So is the conclusion that the cav:

1. can definitely declare a charge, it just becomes a weird frontal charge
2. must test not to charge (because even though they can't make a flank charge they could make a weird frontal charge)?

That is how I read the rules as currently written--too far forward to charge the rear and too close to wheel into the flank. Shock troops would have to test not to charge. They might be too impetuous to wait long enough to maneuver into a proper flank charge position.