Slitherine

Something that is a minor issue for me is the names of the heroes in the game. As I understand it, they are random mixes of first and last names. I would like to see real German war heroes in the game, for example my figher unit getting Werner Mölders as a hero.

And it doesn't seem possible to mod since it uses a random first name and a random last name.

Or am I understandning things wrong? Is it possible to mod? And if not, will this be adressed in the future? Or perhaps am I the only one being annoyed by this?

One of my pet peeves as well. I would love to see actual rated historical heroes with perhaps more than one attribute in the game.

No, it is not possible to create a historical hero because they are randomly assigned and their names are random, as pointed out above. I agree it would be great to be able to create heroes and assign them properly, too. Michael Wittmann in a Pz III just won't do IMO.

El_Condoro wrote:No, it is not possible to create a historical hero because they are randomly assigned and their names are random, as pointed out above. I agree it would be great to be able to create heroes and assign them properly, too. Michael Wittmann in a Pz III just won't do IMO.

It would be very neat if the devs could make this option available like a "pzdat" file, where all the gamer has to do is open up the file and name the Heroes accordingly. Maybe add in Hero categories (Luftwaffe, Artillery, Infantry, Panzer, etc) so that the appropriate Hero shows up in the appropriate slots, eg. Michael Wittman for Panzers, Erich Hartmann for Fighters, Hans Rudel for Stukas

As I though, nothing we can do about it ourselves.

Would be interesting to get a dev reply to this though. If this will be possible to mod in the future I mean.

Not to mention the fact that some of the so called heroes are borderline war criminals (being part of SS) At the post-war Nuremberg Trials the Waffen-SS was condemned as a criminal organization etc. ect.

I think the term "hero" is a generic one and more to do with their combat attributes than organisational affiliation, much less their personal beliefs. We have the SS in the game (called SE elite for reasons of certain sensitivities) but ignore the less palatable aspects of the organisation and focus on their combat acumen. [I can hear a can of worms being opened...]

El_Condoro wrote:[I can hear a can of worms being opened...]

Indeed.

So no Michael Wittman and Hans Rudels then

johndoe2 wrote:So no Michael Wittman and Hans Rudels then

Well, since we initially talked about modding it in, one could include whatever soldier one wanted. Personally I'd stick to the more admirable soldiers like "Vati" and "Gulle". But at the moment it's just a theoretical debate anyway.

I actually wouldn't go there. In every single WW2 game that I've seen such an addition be it by devs or mods always led to huge flame wars about whether certain people were war criminals and whether others deserve to be in there or not. Also who is to decide who is a hero or not? I mean we're getting medals like the EK II here. The EK II was awarded over 3 mio times in WW2. And even the Knights Cross several thousand times. And then there's the highest award ever, the Ritterkreuz mit goldenem Eichenlaub, Schwertern und Brillanten, which was awarded only once, to Hans-Ulrich Rudel, which was a huge Nazi asshole, helping war criminals like Mengele after the war and being engaged in Neonazi activities in Germany after the war, and working as a weapons dealer for every dictator there every was in south america. So how the hell do you want to do this? Take fuckers like him and call the heroes in the game or just do random names representing all the good guys that actually may have been heroes back in the day, some of those 3mio guys who are now our grandfathers or great grandfathers who nobody ever heard of but who may have saved hundreds of lives in one deed they may not even have gotten a medal for.

I say the random names are perfect. They represent all those unknown heroes perfectly and don't glorify questionable 'historical heroes' of which most were just pushed by propaganda on both sides anyway.

IMO the names should be random in the vanilla game but with the possibility of being non random, case a modder want to use historical names or his own fictional names.
If a modder wants to use historical names it should be permitted. If he wants to use any of the SS criminals names or any of SS non criminals names or even the name of his grandfather as an hero , he must be able to do it.
This game is apolitical by its nature. It also doesn't make any kind of judgment. If the modder want to turn it political than it will be his problem.

VPaulus wrote:IMO the names should be random in the vanilla game but with the possibility of being non random, case a modder want to use historical names or his own fictional names.
If a modder wants to use historical names it should be permitted. If he wants to use any of the SS criminals names or any of SS non criminals names or even the name of his grandfather as an hero , he must be able to do it.
This game is apolitical by its nature. It also doesn't make any kind of judgment. If the modder want to turn it political than it will be his problem.

VPaulaus, you sum my view up exactly so I won't bother with a response. I'll just back your statement.

VPaulus wrote:IMO the names should be random in the vanilla game but with the possibility of being non random, case a modder want to use historical names or his own fictional names.
If a modder wants to use historical names it should be permitted. If he wants to use any of the SS criminals names or any of SS non criminals names or even the name of his grandfather as an hero , he must be able to do it.
This game is apolitical by its nature. It also doesn't make any kind of judgment. If the modder want to turn it political than it will be his problem.

+1

While I agree with KeldorKatarn's passion and share his abhorrence of the glorification of the Nazi ideals in any shape or form, I do agree that modders should be able to add historical 'commanders' or 'leaders' (I wouldn't think of them as 'heroes') to their mods. Turn the logic on its head: what better way to give Nazism the bird than to destroy Sepp Deitrich at the head of an SS column or even Peiper's King Tigers in the Ardennes or Wittmann in Normandy. I am not making any judgments about any of those 3 but they are symbols of the ideal that I hate and would love to watch that ideal 'explode' in pixellated flames on my screen!

El_Condoro wrote:While I agree with KeldorKatarn's passion and share his abhorrence of the glorification of the Nazi ideals in any shape or form, I do agree that modders should be able to add historical 'commanders' or 'leaders' (I wouldn't think of them as 'heroes') to their mods. Turn the logic on its head: what better way to give Nazism the bird than to destroy Sepp Deitrich at the head of an SS column or even Peiper's King Tigers in the Ardennes or Wittmann in Normandy. I am not making any judgments about any of those 3 but they are symbols of the ideal that I hate and would love to watch that ideal 'explode' in pixellated flames on my screen!

+1,even tho they were good troops they still fought for an evil thing that should never been seen again (I feel the same way about the Red Army).

That's why I can't wait for an official release for the Allies,until that happens I have the excellent Malestorm Campaign and Mod to hold me over.

*****Edit*****

I read a memoir of a highly decorated German ofc when I was in high school (I'm not going to say which branch or his name). In his book he made a comment that has stayed with me to this day and I'm going to share it. He said "the hardest thing for me personally was Thanking God that we did not win. There was three types of Germans during the lead up to and thru the war. The 1st were the ones who honestly did not know what evils were being commited,they were few,but they existed. The 2nd were the ones who knew and even prepetuated it,they will meet God and may he have no mercy on them. The 3rd and most damned are those like myself,those who knew,or suspected,what was being done..and did nothing about it and continued about their duties. We will have to face God someday and be judged. There were a minute amount who in the beginging who resisted,but they were crushed easily,but at least their souls are not stained by the horror of the regime. Those oppurtunists who resisted later,were just that,they followed the regime and when they saw all was lost they tried to eliminate the leadership,so that they could strike a peace. I know how I judge those,maybe God will judge them differently than I do."