Slitherine

In one of my games (I play the Axis) the Allies did not launch Operation Torch and Vichy France stayed neutral until now (October 1944, propably the Allies will attack Vichy France next turn for capturing Tunis to get another Italian surrender city). The Allied player launched a 1943 D-Day, but did not manage to break out from Normandy until the first few fair weather turns in 1944. Then everything went quick and the Allies managed to capture Paris and drove the Axis to the Rhine.

Of course Vichy stayed neutral under the current rules, but I wonder if this is a realistic development. I doubt that the Vichy regime would not act after the Axis occupants has been pushed out of France. I strongly believe they would have joined the Allies after the liberation of the whole or at least most of the occupied part of France. As this is a "what if" scenario this is of course speculation.

Nevertheless, I think it would be the most likely course of action that the Vichy regime would side with the Allies after it is obvious that occupied France will be liberated. Of course Vichy would also claim sovereingnty for the previously occupied part of France. Game wise I would propose that Vichy activates on the Allied side as soon as the Allies manage to liberate Paris. Under normal circumstances the success of D-Day will then be obvious and the battle for France will be over.

I also think this will make the game more interesting and historical as in the real war the Germans invaded southern France in November 1942 to prevent Vichy to side with the Allies and any landings in southern France.

Good observation. I agree completely.

zechi wrote:Nevertheless, I think it would be the most likely course of action that the Vichy regime would side with the Allies after it is obvious that occupied France will be liberated. Of course Vichy would also claim sovereingnty for the previously occupied part of France. Game wise I would propose that Vichy activates on the Allied side as soon as the Allies manage to liberate Paris. Under normal circumstances the success of D-Day will then be obvious and the battle for France will be over.

I also think this will make the game more interesting and historical as in the real war the Germans invaded southern France in November 1942 to prevent Vichy to side with the Allies and any landings in southern France.

My primary concern with this is game balance. Let's face it: the Allies don't need any more help. Let them invade Vichy France; it will not be difficult in the situation you describe. Or they can just leave it neutral and not worry about it at all.

I also see the potential for unintended consequences, like Vichy France joining the Allies after a para landing in Paris, or an early fall of Paris in 1941-42 handing the Allies Vichy France while the battle in the west is very much in doubt. It is a reasonable strategy at times for the Germans to pull back and counterattack, and I wonder if Vichy France would have joined the Allies if the German Army was about to drive the Allies back to the French coast.

Historically, the Allies launched Operation Torch in November 1942, so in terms of the game that would mean that the Germans wouldn't have to "invade" southern France; it would come to them as a new ally. In this way, the game already follows the historical timeline with respect to Vichy France.

If this rule was to be implemented, I would like to see a time revision. For example, the Allies have to hold Paris for X number of turns before Vichy France joins. This would help eliminate the potential unintended consequences and give the Axis some time to prepare for Vichy France to switch sides. Thus, game balance would be less effected.

But if this does come down to a vote, mine will definitely be to leave things as is.

joerock is right to be concerned about game balance: the Allies do not need any more advantages than they already have. Proceed with caution. If this type of change were to be adopted, it would need to be accompanied by conditions such as a Paris time-lag. And if the status quo re Vichy is not a real problem most of the time, perhaps it is better not to try "fixing" it if that would lead to unanticipated consequences that would further disadvantage the Axis side.