Slitherine

I can not find this explicitly stated in the rules, but I presume if any broken unit suffers a further cohesion loss ten it is destroyed and moved from the table.

Thanks,

John

I thought that if a broken unit does not rally at the next available turn it was destroyed and removed from the table.

Johndeterreneuve wrote:I can not find this explicitly stated in the rules, but I presume if any broken unit suffers a further cohesion loss ten it is destroyed and moved from the table.

p 66 first sentence.

Also p.74. "If a broken unit contacted by an enemy assault or pursuit they are immediately destroyed..."

I can't see anything on other possible causes of cohesion loss, such as shooting, seeing a friend rout etc..., so I assume that in these cases the broken unit is not destroyed, but remains broken, until it fails (or does not attempt) to rally in the recovery phase when the owner player in the active player. If this correct, I assume that in the case of shooting the broken unit would still need to make any outcome move.

Andy D

I believe it remains broken and can continue to cause cohesion tests on friends it runs past so yes an outcome move could cause more tests as it passes back past other friends.
Then it must attempt to rally and if it fails to rally or can not rally in the recovery phase it is removed. Unlike the other FOG rules where you get to watch them run off the table.
Also note that infantry that rally are winded and if they break again are removed, you only get 1 shot at bringing them back

I believe the intent of the question is being missed.

page 66 refers to units being contacted in pursuit.

page 74 refers to units being contacted in an assault

I believe the rally rule applies only to the first turn after which it was broken and not to subsequent turns (page 71 bottom).

So I am still unsure what happens to broken units when shot at and lose further cohesion. Do they take another outcome move or are they destroyed?

Thanks

The real question is can you shoot at broken troops. I am not seeing anything in the rules to answer if you can shoot at broken or what happens to broken that get shot at. Looks like you will have to wait for an author on this one.

Hi,

Note that it is page 72 which refers to Broken units being immediately destroyed. This occurs when :-
1. Contacted in an assault or pursuit.
2. Failing to rally or not attempting to rally.

Shooting at them provides the outcomes as per the RESULTS OF FIRING TABLE. For example, if you cause 4+ hits on them (and some fire is at close range) then they will make another outcome move. If you cause 4+ hits and all the fire is at medium or long range then you have just wasted your powder as this has no effect.

There is no Cohesion level below Broken (other than for Artillerymen, but that is a separate issue with its own rules). This is no different to causing 4+ hits on a Wavering unit at close range - it drops to Broken, not "less than Broken" and not destroyed.

There is nothing wrong with this. To me it seems consistent. You cannot make a unit Broken from Firing unless some of the firers move up to close range. Similarly, you cannot destroy a Broken unit directly from firing - you have to go in with the bayonet. You may indirectly destroy them by them moving off table in their Movement phase, or failing to rally in their Recovery phase.

If you want to make sure of them, then assault them. If you trust to luck, then let them destroy themselves and go do something else with the pursuing unit. I am usually quite happy to leave the Broken units, because if someone ties up a Commander chasing down a Broken unit in the hope of rallying it, then I count that as a minor victory. Because it means they are reinforcing failure and not doing something more useful with that Commander .

Cheers,
John Shaw

Thanks John, that is how I will play it. When you think about it I suppose in reality units to not disappear, they just stay around buggering things up!

You can't make broken unit 'more' broken. They are already at their lowest level of Cohesion.
All you can do is to destroy them by contacting them, or make your opponent choose not to rally then by giving him more units to recover than he has commanders available.

Page 71 (last bullet point continuing into page 72):
• Broken units must attempt to rally during the first Recovery Phase after it becomes Broken. If the Broken unit either fails to rally or doesn’t attempt to rally then it is destroyed and removed from the table.

Thanks, still a little unclear what happened though after the immediate turn after it is broken. If it is rallied does it go to Wavering, but become spent.

John

Wavering and spent that sounds right. If they break a second time while spent they are removed, no chance to rally. FOG N is pretty rough on routers compared to the other FOG rules

Thanks, still a little unclear what happened though after the immediate turn after it is broken. If it is rallied does it go to Wavering, but become spent.

Top of page 71 - RH column:
A successful test will result in a unit gaining one level of cohesion i.e.
......
Broken to Wavering

Top of Page 72 - LH column, 2nd Bullet:
All Brokn units lose a single base permanently. This is to signify that the unit is spent.

Thanks