Slitherine

Hello guys and girls!

We would like to thank Slitherine for this opportunity, we are delighted (personally, I'm thrilled!) to work on FoG and we are committed to do a good job with it

As Iain told you, after I've found out Slitherine is looking for a new developer for the FoG series and after I've approached them about this, we had a look over the old code, and, unfortunately, it was not feasible to go on on the Real Basic road, which would have lead nowhere else than in a dead-end. We would have spent around a couple of months or so trying to figure out the structure and particularities of the old code, then another couple of months implementing small things, with little prospect of a real future for that code. Not to mention the limited possibilities of RealBasic language and its IDE.

We've presented to Iain an alternative for this: nothing less than a remake of the whole FoG game in Unity, using C# as implementing language! It would probably take a longer time span to have it done, together with the next addon, than having it done in RealBasic, but on a long-term, it would be the only way to go, specially if having a future FoG 2.0 in mind. Yet, even so, it seemed safer than going down into the depth of the RealBasic abyss.

So, here we are now

The new FoG will be re-made from the scratch (but, of course, re-using the RBFoG's data and resources). At this point, we're working on the basics, which is implementing the game's scenes, and reading the old data formats. After that, we'll go on with re-organizing the whole data, then code the GUI, gameplay, DAG functionality and multiplayer. At some point, we'll have a beta version ready, and then you can jump into the development cycle by testing it and providing feedback.

As there's no document design from the old FoG, it means that we're not simply copying the gameplay, but actually re-implementing it, using the RBFoG's help and FoG TT rule's book as reference. And with this, we're getting to the real part of all of this: the new FoG.

We would like to have you open a thread and gather the most important fixes/small changes (attention, not new game systems) which you would like to have implemented into the new version of FoG, and we would like to have this in at most one month from now on (after that, it would be too late for the next addon release version). Then we'll sit and talk about them and the ones which are making sense, and will be accepted, will make it into the game. A sort of digital version game rules reference list would be good to result from this discussion, as it would greatly help us in getting the re-coding done faster.

Due to the enormous task of having to rebuild the whole game from the scratch, in the shortest time humanly possible, there's not too much room for drastic changes and improvements for the new version of the game. Definitely not for the first release (which will be the next addon). We already have to deal with enough at this point with the recreation of the whole series, not to also mention the changing of the data formats and all the other under-the-hood things in order to provide a flexible platform which is also intended to be used for the development of FoG 2.0. With the release of the new version (hopefully) lowering the pressure, the next two (last) addons will see some more changes added into the code.

We will also present a slightly more detailed development road, together with some possible new modifications and possible new game(play) systems to be added on top of FoG's basis.

You all know me, and my determination to make a really good Ancient Warfare Game. After we'll finish the FoG series, it will be the time to discuss about FoG 2.0 (and maybe a merge of my personal AWG project with it, depending on an agreement from all involved parts, we'll see when we'll get to that point) and everything which can be done in order to fulfill the hopes and dreams of all ancient and medieval tactical warfare enthusiasts.

Together, we can make it!

Yours,
Dan Antonescu

cothyso wrote: We will also present a slightly more detailed development road, together with some possible new modifications and possible new game(play) systems to be added on top of FoG's basis.

You all know me, and my determination to make a really good Ancient Warfare Game. After we'll finish the FoG series, it will be the time to discuss about FoG 2.0 (and maybe a merge of my personal AWG project with it, depending on an agreement from all involved parts, we'll see when we'll get to that point) and everything which can be done in order to fulfill the hopes and dreams of all ancient and medieval tactical warfare enthusiasts.

Might "possible new modifications and possible new game(play) systems" hint at extending FoG 2.0+ into the Renaissance and beyond?

Dan, here is the document submitted to Slitherine before Xmas by myself and TGM. It represents a distillation of the main developments players would like to see (up to the end of 2011). I am also holding more detailed "secondary sheets" for the respective sub-headings (in bold text below)

Suggestions for improvements to FOG from the players (December 2011)

Single Player and Multiplayer DAG Improvements
a) hot seat DAG battles
b) players can build AI army and deploy AI army in SP battles
c) better routines for AI picks in its armies i.e.: it takes too many leaders, never chooses allies etc
d) AI tweaks: specifically AI careless with lights, AI does not use non missile lights, use of poor quality troops needs adjusting
e) deployment zones away from the map side edges, additional forward deployment space for palisades (plus the troops to man), and artillery
f) replay an entire battle from start to finish/view the battle while it is the other player's turn
g) ability to specify game play preferences when posting challenges
h) 2 player vs. 2 player MP matches (or more!)
i) custom maps for MP battles
j) name your leaders, custom battle flags
k) add functionality for "flank marches" (as per the TT rules)
l) custom DAG armies

Add-on Functions and Game Play Improvements
a) campaign game comprised of (not mutually inclusive nor exclusive of others)
-a series of interlinked scenarios getting progressively more challenging
-themed with real generals – for example, Hannibal, Caesar and Alexander
-continuity from one scenario to the next: casualties carry over
-customisable “core” army built via AP’s (think Panzer Corp)
-personalization of generals and units that can gain battle honors, and improve in experience
-customisable size of campaign
-be able to incorporate multiple players using the server
b) combat and missile fire amended so that there are far fewer "extreme" results
c) add a command and control function
d) commanders set to be in the front rank or in the rear rank, differing risk/reward
e) light foot in terrain remain hidden even if in “line of sight” unless they move or shoot
f) routed elephants have variable rout paths possibly thru friendly or enemy units (rampage)
g) consider additional breaks off situations such as cavalry from elephants, light from heavies etc
h) units that attempt to break off but cant should drop a cohesion level (per the TT rules)
i) pursuing units can leave the map and then queue to return.
j) introduce variable army morale breaking point instead of rigid 50% rule
k) deploy 25% of your troops at a time, round robin

Scenario Editor Improvements
a) larger maps
b) introduce new terrain i.e. buildings, walls
c) road movement
d) camps and palisades
e) realistic impassable hexes, ideally two types with support for multiple graphics impassable that blocks LOS and missile, another that does neither ( as is now)
f) greater customisation of units : any combination of weapons, armor etc. ability to set individual units: % casualties, cohesion levels, break point worth etc. for the start of a scenario
g) add allies using the editor (currently bugged)
h) ability to modify POA charts, weapons ranges, movement rates
i) support for custom BG graphics
j) fixed units, reinforcements, limited scripting of units, set aggression levels, “defend” “attack”
k) allow specified units/leaders the chance to change sides before a battle (treachery)
l) allow reinforcements during a battle (units arriving late from your camp, flanking movements)
m) add victory conditions (death of the C-in-C is an automatic win or x amount of BP’s, victory hexes to be captured etc.

Miscellaneous
a) add a data dump to upload to the server for ease of tracking and reporting bugs “live”
b) continued support for fixing known bugs

Hi Dan,

First of all good luck with FOG. We all need it .

I think you can add the following to Pete list:

Bow Cavalry drilled/undrilled evade against Drilled Lancers as long as these ones are Heavy Armored Knights.
Drilled Bow Cavalry do not evade against Cataphracts or other Lancers (Except drilled Heavy Armored Knights)
Undrilled Bow Cavalry evade against drilled Cataphracts.

Tks and regards,

Federico

This is very welcome news. FoG is an excellent game but I've come to realize that it is indeed "broken" and has lost some of its appeal for me.

My only request is to add the ability to order units to "stand their ground" and to have those units actually follow that order.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Gday Dan and congradulations on your news. FOG is a great game but needs more realistic casualty rates at the momment they are far too extreme. Can we please make the Random dice generator more random instead of putting up with a full turn of poor dice compared to an opponents excellent dice.Anyway thats my input and Good luck on your new venture.

Cheers Turk

Good luck Dan, it's a remarkable challenge you've taken on and I know that a lot of people are looking forward to this.

One thought from me - many people have complained about the wild swings in the combat results and whether a certain type of unit will beat another, etc. I guess you won't have time to drastically re-engineer the battle resolution process, so it will still be based on d6 (six sided dice). All I'd suggest is put these resolution mechanics into modules so that if at some time there is going to be an improvement (e.g. lookup tables, or d100 for %, etc.) then this will be relatively easy to upgrade in the future.

So if I read this right the Wolves from the Sea module will not be forthcoming anytime soon? How long should we expect to wait for the new FoG to be released with next module? 2 years? Less? Redoing an entire game is time consuming (to say the least).

Very good news, all-in-all.

I would echo two points:

1) ETA?
2) Is it too far off to consider Renaissance?

...and add two:
1) Will we be seeing, at some point, the other books (I'm thinking Dragon, especially, partly because I feel this may well attract many more punters for obvious reasons)?
2) Can we have a better way of seeing what's going on during an opponent's turn? Many aspects of the rules are somewhat opaque in documentation (e.g. support shooting) and while the experienced players here are extremely generous in explaining things, even they seem not to have a full understanding of some details. I think it would help players grasp the rules/system a lot if we could pause the game and have a look at poas, dice etc. (of course one can 'pause' now with 'V' but not see too much in the results screen). This would also help when on the receiving end of a seemingly-mad result, to see the actual dice and perhaps some factors one wasn't aware of.

Hopefully FOG-R will be made some day. I at least don't know any wargame that truly features the era in all it's greatness. One would think it would have some demand at least. Even if it's implemented with generic computer graphics instead of the handpainted miniatures photocopied, I would certainly want it.

My high level comment is "Design for the touch platform, by which realistically I mean 'iPad', from the outset."

Because, if you do it right, eventually that's where the majority of your sales will come from.

peterb wrote:My high level comment is "Design for the touch platform, by which realistically I mean 'iPad', from the outset."

Because, if you do it right, eventually that's where the majority of your sales will come from.

DROID...

Got my doubts, often good games for touch ends awfully for PC. Besides for PC I guess yu can implement a "powerful" game.

Cheers!

Yeah, I have no need to be playing FOG while sitting on a bus or lounging around a beach. Thats my drinking beer and oggling woman time

Lol, agreed!

Looking forward to the updated version. Small suggestion for those of us with bad eyesight. With the graphics on the computer, I sometimes find it hard to see the remaining melee among the stacks of forces and in larger battles, telling me the unit type isn't always immediately obvious where on the map it is. Can you "flash" the unit in question?

Agree with the suggestion list above.

All of the armies in the scenarios you have should be available for DAG usage. I have FoG and Storm of Arrows. All of the Storm of Arrows armies are on the list, but only the two free ones from Slitherine are on the list from the basic game.

Best of luck!

JJ

I for one would love to have FOG for iPad. That way I can play while I sit with my wife while she watches TV!

Single player campaign mode?

I'd also like to recommend that a single player campaign mode be created much like in Panzer Corps, including the carrying over of units to the next battle, and advancement of units as they gain experience.

JJ

Fellow wargamers,

If I read correctly, the Wolves From The Sea expansion will not be out on schedule. Being a period that I am extremely interested in, I am a bit disappointed. I purchased the entire system recently in anticipation for this expansion. While I think I understand the reason not to, selfishly I wish the new developers would continue using the same development system just to meet the posted release date for the Wolves From The Sea expansion.

Sorry for complaining. I am loving the game system so far and there are *plenty* of battles/armies to choose from, but I really wanted to break a Saxon shieldwall this summer.

-MattMan467

I sympathize with MattMan. I am very disappointed that Swifter than Eagles will not see the light of day as this one module would have completed the chronology.

A question for Dan A.: Does this "New" FoG mean that dropped modules such as Swifter than Eagles will eventually be done?